Integeek is refusing to see the point by being obtuse and pretending it is not there.>

I am addressing your point directly. You first brought up the point that since Mary was Jewish, Jesus had to be a Jew. Therefore, I addressed the concept of Jewish genetics, speaking directly to your point.

I challenged you on that point with the following argument (twice) and you were unable to respond. I said your understanding of the issue is superficial, and challenged you to respond and correct me. You haven't been able to respond.

If you have an answer, then let's hear it, because this is the third time. If you are unable to answer, then it's okay for me to say, "Chancho is unable to answer."

<If there's a Jewish race with Jewish genes, then <WHO> was the first Jew?

Abraham is often called the father of the Jewish race, but Abraham was not a Jew! He was a Chaldean, from Ur of the Chaldees in the area of Babylon. So was Abraham's wife, Sarah. Abraham, his wife, his father, and his family were pagans who worshiped idols.

Abraham can rightly be called <Hebrew> because Hebrew means "crosses over" and Abraham "crossed over" the River Euphrates to get to the land of Canaan, but in doing so, his genes DID NOT change into "Jewish genes."

You all get that? Crossing over the Euphrates did not change Abraham's genes to Jewish.

Abrahams's two sons, Ishmael and Isaac were not Jewish because their mothers (Sarah and Hagar) and father didn't have Jewish genes.

Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau (the twins), and NEITHER was Jewish.

Esau became the father of the Edomites and they were definitely NOT Jewish! Esau is considered the father of Arabs - definitely not Jewish!

But if Esau and Jacob are twins, and Esau is NOT JEWISH, then Jacob can't be Jewish either.

Carrying on...

Jacob and his sons went to Egypt to escape the famine (Jacob's son Joseph was second in charge of all Egypt at the time) and many years later, these people came out of Egypt during the Exodus, when they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years and eventually headed to Canaan.

But their genes did not <become Jewish> along the way!

In fact, the group that came out of Egypt, the Israelites, the Bible refers to as a MIXED MULTITUDE, meaning that there were others in the group BESIDES the offspring of Jacob.

(They were called Israelites because Jacob's name to Israel)

Then when the Israelites reached the land of Canaan they intermarried with the heathen Canaanites, against God's explicit command. Obviously, THAT did not suddenly make them "Jewish." So, who was the FIRST Jew? And HOW did ANYONE ever become "Jewish" genetically?

<Chancho>, would you like to answer this question?

They had been plotting to kill Jesus for a while, and they finally did kill him, and you're saying it's because his message was kind?

If his message was all about kindness, then who is going to plot to kill someone because they are spreading kindness?

I have not argued any point about Jesus being Jewish. All I've done is ask <two> questions.

1. Where do the scriptures show Jesus's followers or fellow Israelites referring to him as a Jew?

2. Who was the first Jew?

In response to question one, my interlocutors posted numerous times, but they never quoted the scriptures where Jesus's followers or fellow Israelites called him a Jew. My task was to remind them after each of their posts that <this> was the question I asked them. Eventually, because I wouldn't allow them to deflect and kept bringing the question back up, they bowed out - as you rightly noticed.

Which gave rise to the religion of Talmudic Judaism. That's the religion of those identifying as religious Jews in this day and age, if my understanding is correct.>

All very good points and these are the kinds of things that the <rogoff> posters have no knowledge about, which is why I said their knowledge of this was superficial.

Regarding Talmudic Judaism, I would say it started in the 500s B.C. when the Israelites were in exile in Babylon.

Israeli philosopher and Biblical scholar Yehezkel Kaufmann said "The exile is the watershed. With the exile, the religion of Israel comes to an end and Judaism begins."

"Secrets of Noah's Ark – Transcript". Nova. PBS. 7 October 2015. Retrieved 27 May 2019.

The Talmud, if I can oversimplify, is the reinterpretation of the Torah and although it was written in or about 500 A.D., the oral traditions of the Talmud went back to the time of the Babylonian exile.

The Israelites picked up the Pagan ways of the Babylonians and rejected the true religion of the Israelites, forming a new religion based on occult-influenced Talmudic Judaism, which was finally written down around 500 A.D.

Judaism became a mix of Kabbalah and Talmudic teachings. The Kabbalah is an esoteric, occultic religion and the Talmud is a Satanic book that turns the Torah on its head - and for the Jews, the Talmud is their most holy book. You almost never see a Jew with the Torah.

The Talmud says Mary is a whore, a slut who got knocked up by a soldier.

I said "Why do you like him? Trump is in all kinds of criminal trouble, he lies, steals, cheats on his taxes. Is this your kind of guy?"

He said "I think the economy is better with Trump."

I explained that unemployment is at 3.5%, American GNP is up, inflation has dropped, stock market is moving well.

He said "Not everyone benefits from the stock market."

I tried to explain that the Trump ten percenters benefit more from a rising stock market than anyone. And, if you have an IRA, an employee savings plan [your contributions reduce your taxable income] or perhaps a Keoh you would also benefit from the stock market going up.

No use. Trump has an appeal to non-college white males that is hard to fathom. You can't debate such people, they don't know the facts and don't care about facts. They just smile and say "I don't believe it" or "I like Trump." Just watch on television, when a CNN reporter tries to get a straight answer from a Trump voter.

The Talmud says Jesus Christ is boiling in excrement and semen in hell right now.>

<TGA The tribe endorsing the tribe>

Asking his questions but refusing to answer the questions of others.

Doesn't work like that.

Whatever the Talmud says about Mary and Jesus is irrelevant.

That's a red herring.

The question was if Mary was <Jewish> by ethnicity.

If so, Jesus was <Jewish> by ethnicity.

So I take it that means you have not argued it, because, erm, Jesus is Jewish?

Are all Jews Talmudic, and there are no more Israelites (having mixed with the Canaanites)? Is it your stance that Judaism didn’t begin until 500 AD?

So, if (and I’m really asking here) Jews didn’t “exist” until 500AD, does that mean Christian claims that the Jews were responsible for Jesus’ death false?

Helping the blind to see, helping the lame to walk.

Curing Lepers.

Giving Bread and Fish to a multitude of 5,000.

The washing of the disciple's feet.

<John 13:34-35 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.>

Kindness is an ingredient of love.

<1 Corinthians 13 1: 13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Acts of the Apostles: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.>

He died on the cross because he loved Humanity and his sacrifice reconciled man with God.

<Zechariah 12:10

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”

Isaiah 52:4-5

4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

John 15:12, NIV “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.”

Matthew 5:42, NIV “Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

Matthew 5:16, NIV“In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

John 13:15, "I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you..."

Luke 22: 26-27 Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.>

Seems pretty clear-cut to me.

His sacrifice for mankind out of love.

Telling others to serve.

<TGA: Strangely, you are not alone. The "Rogoff posters" bowed out of their debate with The Integrity, all of them! >

<TGA: bowed out of their debate all of them!>

Sounds to me like you are fawning over that clown.

<TGA: Only if you ignore the fact that these were both accurate statements.>

Accurate my ass.

That someone takes a day or two of not responding to a post can be a case of not seeing it!

You once took a whole week to respond to a post I directed at <you.>

Does that sound like "bowing out" to you?

Give me a break...

Btw, Your response to the source I posted calling it "the tribe..." sounds like anti-semitism.

Your quote from Jim is an excellent example of projection.

Jim has a premium membership. He can search the kibitzing, see what posts were made and in what chronological order. Who declared victory, and who stayed in or bowed out, and when.