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< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 797 OF 797 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Susan Freeman: <MissScarlett: Has anyone been prosecuted for infringement? I suppose <cg> is in an awkward situation - technically, the site is a commercial enterprise, but it doesn't make any money once allowance is made for <Miss Susan>'s travel expenses.>

LOLOL.
I repeat: I take zero compensation from CG. According to US tax laws, one could categorize it as a hobby. LOL

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Ok, I think I've finally got my head wrapped around this thing (using a color coded spreadsheet!).

Yorkshire Chess Association (1841)
renames itself to:
Northern & Midland Counties Chess Association (1853)
renames itself to the:
Chess Association (1857)
commonly referred to as the:
British Chess Association.

In the meantime a new group formed:
West Yorkshire Chess Association (1856)

And another group formed:
North Yorkshire and Durham Chess Association (1866)
renamed to:
Yorkshire Chess Association (1868)
renamed to:
Counties Chess Association (1870)

And the BCA which has been fallow since 1872ish reformed:
British Chess Association (1885)

And finally a third incarnation using this name was begun:
Yorkshire Chess Association (1886)

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Retireborn: I'd write "Switzerland ch" for such tournaments. Swiss ch looks like a swiss (laughs)
Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Swiss Championship, Zurich (1952). Zurich added, but how does that help.
Jun-27-25  stone free or die: <Tab> - a point of clarification if you please - the newspaper usage of

< "53. Schweizer Schachturnier in Zürich".>

Is the 53 referring to the number of Swiss Champion tournament titles?

And a couple more...

And was the internationalization begun in 1952-18 = 1934?

Who decided which international players were invited, and by what criteria?

.

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Tabanus: Swiss Championship, Zurich (1952). Zurich added, but how does that help.>

Sometimes people are searching for the Swiss Championship for 1952 and others are trying to find the Zurich 1952 tournament.

Seemed like offering up the combined data is a simple no-cost solution. A number of pre-1900 tournaments use the <event_name, city> format for similar reasons, i.e. dual names so why not use both.

1st DSB Congress, Leipzig (1879)
2nd DSB Congress, Berlin (1881)
3rd DSB Congress, Nuremberg (1883)
etc.

1st BCA Congress, Manchester (1857)
2nd BCA Congress, Birmingham (1858)
4th BCA Congress, Bristol (1861)
etc.

But it works for non-ordinal named events too.

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <Is the 53 referring to the number of Swiss Champion tournament titles?> Apparently yes. Zürich 1952 is no. 53 in the list of Swiss champions in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss... (if I counted right).

<And was the internationalization begun in 1952-18 = 1934?> Dunno. 1934 was in Zürich also, and may be the first.

<Who decided which international players were invited, and by what criteria?> Dunno. The organizing chess club I suppose.

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Another failed match (3 of the 5 games, xtab, write-up):
Burille - Young (1888)

It should also be pointed out that...
http://www.edochess.ca/matches/m892...
...is somewhat fictional.

Burille did beat Young, in the Paine Tournament held by the Boston Chess Club, by a score of +13=1-1. I'm not sure how Rod cocked that up into a one-on-one match, but here we are... someone should point that out to him at some point.
Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I'll leave it as is for now.

<jnp> Good point. Only I don't really like the numbering (2nd, 13th, etc.), it has always caused me trouble.

Jun-27-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Tabanus: Only I don't really like the numbering (2nd, 13th, etc.), it has always caused me trouble.>

I understand completely.

Some events are easier to untangle than others. The Germans were fairly consistent nationally.

The American Chess Congresses are a limited number and easily dealt with.

The British association numbers are a mess, but I think I've finally got a handle on things after spending a day charting things out in my spreadsheet. The big question is should ordinal numbering continue through an organization after it changes names, or does the count reset? Some contemporary reports reset the count and others did not. I'm in the reset camp.

I'm leaving the Nordic countries in your hands. The Brits are enough for me to deal with, so feel free to skip the ordinal numbering. Perhaps someday someone will come along and bravely deal with it. :-P

Jun-28-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Burille did beat Young, in the Paine Tournament held by the Boston Chess Club, by a score of +13=1-1.>

Some corrections are in order (and perhaps an apology to Rod).

The Paine Tournament had 8 players and was a "a Four-game tourney", i.e. a quadruple round robin.

<Columbia Chess Chronicle> reports made during the event had C. F. Burille scoring:
3 games won and 1 lost (May)
6 games won and 1 lost (June)
7½ games won and 1½ lost (June)
9½ games won and 1½ lost (June)
15½ games won and 4½ lost (August)

The last report is Burille's winning total for 1st place (Snow got 2nd place with 14 wins and 5 losses); clearly participants were withdrawing as their chances of winning shrank with Burille playing 20 of 28 games and Snow playing 19 of 28 games.

Rod mentions that the <Boston Weekly Post>, 1888.04.27, p8, "gives a result of +9-1=1 for Burille in offhand games" against Young, which is just prior to the start of the Paine Tournament.

I conflated Burille's +9=1-1 tournament standing reported in June and the reported offhand totals with Young prior to the event as Burille's final score from that event. My revised theory is that the +13-1=1 score between Burille and Young are those offhand games mentioned in the <Boston Weekly Post> plus four additional wins Burille made over Young during the Paine Tournament.

I only have one of Burille's wins over Young from the Paine Tournament at the moment, so I concede the possibility that my theory is wrong and that somehow between the publication of the 27 April 1888 totals (+9=1-1) and the start of the Paine Tournament (before 9 May 1888; the publication date of the first leader-board totals) that Burille and Young somehow found time to play four additional "offhand games" to make the 8 July 1888* reported total (+13=1-1) to be solely offhand games.

* That's the date the New Orleans <Times-Democrat> published the statement given in <La Stratégie>, 15 August 1888.

Jun-29-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Well, time to get crack'n on Pillsbury again.

I've got that new game discovered by <MissScarlett> along with some new 1901 US tour data for v2, and then a new Ali (automaton) game played against Maurice Judd and some additional Ali text for v1.

Seems like enough new material to warrant updates.

I'm not sure how Missy would like to be acknowledged for the discovery, by CG username or are you willing to disclose your identity for the world to see?

Jun-29-25  stone free or die: Just curious, which Pillsbury game did <Missy> discover?
Jun-29-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Scroll back to the end of last month. It was found in the <To-Day> newspaper if I recall correctly (I'm away from my PC at the moment).
Jun-29-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Pillsbury vs H C Moore, 1903
Jun-29-25  stone free or die: Ah, that jogs the memory. Thanks.
Jun-30-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi JNP,

"I'm not sure how Missy would like to be acknowledged for the discovery, by CG username or are you willing to disclose your identity for the world to see?"

I have a short list of who I suspect Miss Sc. is and have come to the conclusion he/she is a 'they.'
Three people are posting under that banner. You can tell by the different styles, attitudes and sentence construction. They do it in shifts that is why it seems Miss Sc. appears to be on here 24/7.

Who are these three amigos?
An expert historian and researcher. Tim Hardin.
Sharp biting retorts. Jennifer Shahade
Very adapt at cutting and pasting. Ray Keene

Jun-30-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #22441)

Perhaps rabbit, perhaps.

Jun-30-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Perhaps not Ray, but maybe one of the other founding members of the Howard Staunton Society; Barry Martin, Clive Davey, or Brian Clivaz... are all three still alive and kick'n?
Jun-30-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Barry Martin, Clive Davey, or Brian Clivaz>

Who are these people? Cosplaying interlopers. Begone!

Jun-30-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Not a denial...
Jun-30-25  stone free or die: We have the photo...

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...

https://www.thearticle.com/the-lega...

Jul-01-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <MissScarlett>
Burille / Young / Michaelis vs Michaelis / Burille / Young, 1890

The players alternated playing moves on the board in the order of Burille, Michaelis, and then Young, so the overall sequence was 1.Burille Michaelis 2.Young Burille 3.Michaelis Young etc.

Now in my database I have the White and Black "teams" given in the order of their individual sequences, but now that I've uploaded it here it seems silly to have two different "teams" composed of the same players; normally for a consultation game I will alphabetize the names for the purposes of PID consolidation and player identification.

As you are our authority on tandem games, is there any advice you would like to impart?

Jul-01-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: I ended up putting the names in alphabetical order and then having that PID play itself. I added a <non-ideal> notice of the participants playing sequence in the game's annotations.
Jul-01-25
Premium Chessgames Member
  Retireborn: Geoff, I find it difficult to believe that <MissS> is more than one person!

I did wonder if he might be an American though. As well as Staunton, he occasionally seems interested in Walter Browne.

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