< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 156 OF 284 ·
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Apr-03-06 | | Calli: <talisman> Actually, the story is probably true from what we know about Morphy's mental state. I also have no doubt your great great heard the story from his father but did his father observe Morphy over 122 yrs ago? Their birthdays would tell us if that were possible. |
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Apr-03-06 | | DrKurtPhart: <SBC> Ah yes. Wilbur Lefromage, of him I know well, wasn't he victorious over American tiddleywink prodigy Beau Tiddley in 1851 congress grudge match. Even playing some offhand games giving the odds mentioned in your informative and interesting post. The full wink odds was rumoured to have been invented by Lefromage in 1852, followed by the discovery of the half tiddley odds the year before. Lefromage lost touch with reality and was later found wandering in Tibet, and was never heard of again, after losing a 32 match at even tiddles and winks, to another American, Beau's nephew Paul Tiddley, a chess player and comet, who was on a little known visit to China in the mid - to later 19th century. Rumour has it he gave Lefromage the odds of two tiddleys and three full winks, with one hand tied behind his back, blindfold. Lefromage, on losing a dozen or so more at these odds proclaimed his opponent "a great talent" and retired to the Himalayas to write his memoirs in the process, and as mentioned was last observed in Tibet. long story for sure. The hero himself dismissed his prowess at tiddley winks as simply "parlour games" and "party tricks." Lefromage, in his defence, was past his prime when meeting him and would have probably avoided playing if he'd have known. (see: Staunton scandal 1858.) The unknown tiddley-winks games of the unwilling hero were never published, or discovered even, and he was never known to have added any further information regarding the matter, retiring instead undefeated. thats the short story and i'm sticking to it. end. |
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Apr-03-06
 | | BishopBerkeley: <SBC> & <DrKurtPhart> Though my source has requested anonymity, there is some *suggestive evidence* that The Turk was not only able to play Tiddley-Winks, but that it played an exceptionally mean game. (Unlike its Chess play, its TW skills were entirely mechanical.) Further evidence (if any is needed):
http://static.flickr.com/23/3911125... http://store.prostores.com/theyhave... (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge...)
(: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :)
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Apr-03-06
 | | ketchuplover: I'm afraid of paranoid people. |
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Apr-03-06 | | Jim Bartle: Because they're all out to get you? |
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Apr-03-06 | | historybuff: I read in one book, it was suggested Morphy's mental illness came from syphilis he got in Paris.
Harry Nelson Pillsbury was also said to have died from syphilis. |
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Apr-03-06 | | ckr: <historybuff> Syphilis? Don't believe that that has ever been mentioned on these pages. I have cerainly never read of such and so I would think it to be false. |
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Apr-03-06 | | southpawjinx: <ckr> Go to Pillsbury's biography, such info is there. |
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Apr-03-06 | | Calli: <southpawjinx> "these pages" means the pages in the Paul Morphy forum not all of CG. |
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Apr-03-06 | | historybuff: Page 105, of Stahlberg's book; "The first signs of mental illness, which was probably the result of syphilis contracted in Paris, could be observed in the following years. During the Civil War he lived in Havana and Paris. He later returned to New Orleans. His mental illness grew worce, but when his family once tried to have him committed to an institution he gave such sensible and lucid answers to all questions that he was not accepted as a patient." Stahlberg's did not give grounds, if any, for the suggestion about syphilis. |
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Apr-03-06 | | historybuff: I'm not saying I agree, just thought it would be a good discussion here, with so many Morphy experts. I come here to learn more about Mr Morphy. |
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Apr-03-06 | | Calli: <historybuff> Edward Winter had a Chess Note on two strange reports of Morphy's death. One was the passage from Ståhlberg that you quote here. The other was one by Reichhelm who said that Morphy committed suicide. Nothing has been found to corroborate either report. The syphilis report seems particularly curious. I undestand it as a progessive and debilitating physical disease. Morphy, by all accounts, walked everyday. His death is much more consistent with a sudden stroke than syphilis. |
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Apr-04-06 | | historybuff: Well, Calli, and Ckr, I agree, so I guess we are the myth busters!!!
I don't understand why people write such things about an extraordinary man. |
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Apr-05-06 | | SBC: <Calli>
<Edward Winter had a Chess Note on two strange reports of Morphy's death. One was the passage from Ståhlberg that you quote here. The other was one by Reichhelm who said that Morphy committed suicide. Nothing has been found to corroborate either report.> I had heard of Reichhelm's story, but never of Stahlberg's. Bottom line: They invented the stories?
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Apr-05-06 | | ckr: One aspect of Morphy's dementia was it peaked and then lessened in his later years. I don't think that is consistant with a case of syphilis. <historybuff> it was excellent discussion - keep em comming |
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Apr-05-06 | | Calli: If Ståhlberg's version was from some author from outside of chess, I would see it as mixup of players. Morphy and Pillsbury, two Americans who died early, and someone assigning Pillsbury's illness to Morphy. But could Ståhlberg, a chess player, make that mistake? He, rather sloppily, says that Morphy lived in Havana when he was only there a few weeks. Possibly Ståhlberg is an unreliable historian. Reichhelm's version is mysterious, given there no other references to a suicide. On the other hand, a lot of deaths are rumored to be suicides that were hushed up by the victim's family. No reason that Morphy at age 47 and widely reported to be mentally ill would be immune from such rumors. I know Sergeant refers to it in "Gleanings" but where exactly does Reichhelm say this? |
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Apr-05-06 | | scrambler: 146.162 dollars and 54 cents
DAMMIT THESE VOICES INSIDE MY HEAD!!
Oh wait thats me thinking. sorry
Midknightblue I forget the site I would have put a link to it if I had
known it would create interest. SBC has a great site about Morphy and her Morphy Madness section is perhap the most complete collection of this type of information to be found on Morphy. Its got me to looking into paranoia. If all those newspaper articles and personal first hand accounts are true then Morphy was in very bad shape. Here are 2 accounts that supposedly are true 1. He took long walks on Canal st. talking to himself or any body who would listen about his fathers estate. another time he rush into some well know persons office needing I think 200 dollars for some "emergency" they amused themselves by offering 250 dollars if he would play a game of chess with them. Its seems according to the article his opponent gave Morphy Queen Odds and Morphy forced to play stupid moves and lose in order to get the money Morphy ended up leaving angry without the money saying he come back the next day for it. Chess after he quit it seems to have been a curse on Morphy maybe chess itself drove Morphy over the "Edge". |
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Apr-05-06 | | SBC: <Calli>
I've never read anything by Stahlberg, but, judging from this example of his work, it seems he might should have confined his chess explorations to theory. I don't know where Reichhelm had mentioned his belief, noted in Morphy Gleanings, that Morphy killed himself from opening a vein, but it seems he may have simply associated a bathtub with bleeding to death, a la Jean-Paul Marat or Seneca the Younger and decided assuming was easier that researching. |
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Apr-05-06 | | scrambler: Morphy committed suicide. Calli interesting what about that, how come Morphy was taken to his grave the very next day also his mother was so taken by grief she died a few month later...SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT!!! |
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Apr-06-06 | | scrambler: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/suicide/in...
This caught my eye
4.So what sort of things can contribute to someone feeling suicidal? People can usually deal with isolated stressful or traumatic events and
experiences reasonably well, but when there is an accumulation of such events
over an extended period, our normal coping strategies can be pushed to the
limit.
The stress or trauma generated by a given event will vary from person to
person depending on their background and how they deal with that particular
stressor. Some people are personally more or less vulnerable to particular
stressful events, and some people may find certain events stressful which
others would see as a positive experience. Furthermore, individuals deal
with stress and trauma in different ways; the presence of multiple risk
factors does not necessarily imply that a person will become suicidal. Depending on a person's individual response, risk factors that may contribute
to a person feeling suicidal include:
- Significant changes in:
- Relationships.
- Well-being of self or family member.
- Body image.
- Job, school, university, house, locality.
- Financial situation.
- World environment.
- Significant losses:
- Death of a loved one.
- Loss of a valued relationship.
- Loss of self esteem or personal expectations.
- Loss of employment.
- Perceived abuse:
- Physical.
- Emotional/Psychological.
- Sexual.
- Social.
- Neglect.
In Morphy's case I checked yes on all except sexual and neglect. |
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Apr-06-06 | | DrKurtPhart:
Writer, lead vocal: John Lennon
YER BLUES
Yes I'm lonely wanna die
Yes I'm lonely wanna die
If I ain't dead already
Ooh girl you know the reason why.
In the morning wanna die
In the evening wanna die
If I ain't dead already
Ooh girl you know the reason why.
My mother was of the sky
My father was of the earth
But I am of the universe
And you know what it's worth
I'm lonely wanna die
If I ain't dead already
Ooh girl you know the reason why.
The eagle picks my eye
The worm he licks my bone
I feel so suicidal
Just like Dylan's Mr. Jones
Lonely wanna die
If I ain't dead already
Ooh girl you know the reason why.
Black cloud crossed my mind
Blue mist round my soul
Feel so suicidal
Even hate my rock and roll
Wanna die yeah wanna die
If I ain't dead already
Ooh girl you know the reason why.
available on:
(US) The Beatles
(UK) The Beatles |
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Apr-06-06 | | DrKurtPhart: BALLAD OF A THIN MAN (Bob Dylan)
You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations
You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
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Apr-06-06 | | scrambler: Here's a story .
A certain man decided to hang himself life was just to painful to go on. So he got a rope put it in a tree and put his head in it. He had one banana so he said before I jump I'll eat this banana so he ate it and threw the peel on the ground he was just about to jump when a man came by saw the peel picked it up and ate, seeing this the the guy said to himself wait if that man is eating banana peels maybe life for me is not that bad. at that moment he decided not to kill himself and jumped out of the tree. But he forgot to take the rope from around his neck! |
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Apr-06-06 | | SBC: <scrambler >
<how come Morphy was taken to his grave the very next day> That was fairly reasonable in New Orleans in July, particularly when trying to avoid interference from the media, etc. <also his mother was so taken by grief she died a few month later...> 6 months. How do you know she was "taken by grief?"
<Depending on a person's individual response, risk factors that may contribute to a person feeling suicidal include:> <- Significant changes in:> The last "significant change" seems to have been 20 years before his death. <- Significant losses:> The last "significant loss" seems to have been when? Perhaps 10 years prior to his death? <- Perceived abuse:> If one wanted to stretch the idea, one might pick "social abuse". Other than that and one other, everything is most markedly insignificant. The one other is "Emotional/Psychological."
This is a very comlex issue, just as suicide is and can't be dealt with in a few pithy suggestions, but should be presented in a treatise of sorts. There is always the possibility that Morphy commited suicide and it was covered up, but possibility and probability are two different things. One can suggest the idea, but by no means can one claim the idea without a shred of evidence supporting it. |
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Apr-06-06 | | scrambler: SBC I'll get back to you later in the day I'm pressed for time right now, you bring up some good points. |
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