< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-13-09 | | WhiteRook48: I don't think 4. h4 is really a gambit. |
|
Jun-15-09
 | | GrahamClayton: The 5...h5 variation of the Kieseritsky Gambit is known as the "Long Whip". Does anyone know how this variation received such an unusual name? |
|
Jul-31-09 | | WhiteRook48: but 2 f4 is |
|
Oct-01-10 | | rapidcitychess: OOTD is the Rice gambit. One of the most deadly gambits since the Barley Gambit! 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 g4 5. Ne5 Nf6 6. Bc4 d5 7. exd5 Bd6 8. O-O [bad FEN: rnbqk2r/ppp2p1p/3b1n2/3PN3/2B2ppP/8/PPPP2P1/RNBQ1RK]
8...Bxe5 9.Re1 Qe7 10.c3 f3 11.d4 Ne4 <Decoy and Destroy!> 12.Rxe4 Bh2 13.Kxh2 Qxe4  click for larger viewWouldn't call it the best attacking position for white here... |
|
Apr-11-11
 | | Penguincw: Opening of the Day
Rice Gambit
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.♘f3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.♘e5 ♘f6 6.♗c4 d5 7.exd5 ♗d6 8.O-O < rapidcitychess: OOTD is the Rice gambit. One of the most deadly gambits since the Barley Gambit!
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 g4 5. Ne5 Nf6 6. Bc4 d5 7. exd5 Bd6 8. O-O [bad FEN: [bad FEN: rnbqk2r/ppp2p1p/3b1n2/3PN3/2B2ppP/8/PPPP2P1/RNBQ1RK]] > I think you mean this one
 click for larger viewthe fen is this:
rnbqk2r / ppp2p1p / 3b1n2 / 3PN3 / 2B2ppP / 8 / PPPP2P1 / RNBQ1RK1 |
|
Sep-08-14 | | Amarande: <GrahamClayton> Probably from the appearance of the Black Pawn formation on the King-side (a naming idea much like, say, the Dragon Variation in the Sicilian, or the Stonewall). <rapidcitychess> That might depend on who you are, it worked out just nicely for Marshall :) Marshall vs Von Scheve, 1904 (Then again, we're talking Marshall ... one gets the feeling that finding a position Marshall can't attack from is more or less impossible, and that you could probably replace his pieces with a cute kitten, a fluffy rabbit, and a group of ducklings and he'd STILL manage to evolve a mating attack. Well, unless he's playing Capablanca that is.) |
|
Jun-20-23 | | DanLanglois: This is a composed game, a King's Gambit Accepted. I'm chasing the mirage of a forced win for Black here, as Fischer did. Not maybe so much a mirage, as an illusion that there would be only one way for Black to win -- it seems like things can go badly for White in lots of ways. The idea here is that White's moves are all at least reasonable, often forced. If it's worth the attention, I wonder about cross-referencing existing book opening lines. I came up with this by fiddling with Stockfish, setting it to playing itself. I've chosen the best from a group of such 'games'. 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 3. g5 4. h4 d5 5. d4 dxe4 6.Nxg5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Bb5+ Bd7 9. Be2 h6 10. Nxf7 Kxf7 11. Bxf4 Be6 12. O-O Ke7 13. Nb5 Nc6 14. Bxc7 Qg8 15. Rxf6 Kxf6 16. a3 Be7 17. c4 Qg6 18. Bh5 Qf5 19. d5 Ne5 20. Bxe5+ Qxe5 21. dxe6 Rhg8 22. Kh1 Qxb2 23. Qf1+ Kg7 24. Rb1 Qf6 25. Qxf6+ Kxf6 26. Re1 Kf5 27. Nc3 Rg3 28. Nxe4 Rxa3 29. c5 Bxh4 30. Nd6+ Kg5 31. Re5+ Kf6 32. Rf5+ Kxe6 33. Bg4 Rg3 34. Rg5+ Rxg4 35. Rxg4 Bg5 36. Nxb7 Kd5 37. Na5 Kxc5 38. Nb3+ Kd5 39. Rd4+ Ke5 40. Ra4 Be3 41. g3 Rb8 42. Na5 Kd5 43. Kg2 Rc8 44. Ra3 Bb6 45. Rd3+ Ke4 46. Ra3 Rc7 47. Ra1 Kd4 48. Rd1+ Ke3 49. Ra1 h5 50. g4 hxg4+ 0-1 |
|
Jun-20-23 | | DanLanglois: Here's the story:
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 3... g5 4. h4 d5
 click for larger viewThe next move for White is 5. d4 and this is not his only legal move, of course. After 5. exd5 g4 6. Ne5, he's probably worse off because 6...Qe7. 5. d4 dxe4:
 click for larger viewIn the next several moves and beyond, White finds few plausible alternatives. White plays 6. Nxg5 here, what else? 6.Nxg5 Nf6
 click for larger viewWhite's next move is 7. Nc3 but is there anything else? There is 7. Bb5+ Nc6 8. Bxf4 Bg4, only worth considering as a 'looks even worse' alternative. 7. Nc3 Bb4
 click for larger viewWhite's move here is <8. Bb5+>, but is there anything else? Yes, there is <8. Bc4>, which isn't likely to be dramatically worse, is it? Actually, might be better. 8...Bg4 9. Qd2 Nc6 10. O-O e3 11. Qd3 Qxd4 12. Qxd4 Nxd4 gives an endgame but not a good one for White. Of course White does have 13. Rxf4 here, but 13...Nxc2 what now? That's not easy, though Black is hanging a piece here if White wants to simply play 14. Rxf6. But first, note that White has a rook hanging on a1. Yet 14. Rb1 doesn't seem like the better idea. So, 14. Rxf6 it is. Either way, Black plays 14...O-O-O. This means Black has a rook on the d-file, and has threats, if we consider the possibility of ...Rd1+. After 14. Rxf6 O-O-O 15. Rb1 Bxc3 (the knight defends d1) 16. bxc3 Rd1+, White is, for all of his efforts, in bad shape. Black is playing a piece down, for two pawns, one of which is passed and advanced to e3. In my parlance, I can take 'in bad shape' as a bit underwhelming -- is White actually 'lost', here? Supposing that his try is 17. Rf1, Black has 17...Rhd8 and White's only try is 18. Bxe3, there goes Black's passed pawn. This costs White a piece. 18...Rxf1+ 19. Bxf1 and this isn't over until Black picks up a that bishop, 19...Nxe3. Black has five pawns to four, and R+B+N against White's own R+B+N. Ah, Black is a pawn up in this endgame. Black has three pawns on the queenside to White's isolated a- and c-pawns. Pretty good setup. Both players also have two pawns on the kingside. White's move 20. Re1 is forced, and the reply is 20...Nxf1 and then 21. Rxf1 h5. This leaves Black's R+B versus White's R+N. I do not insist that White is theoretically, definitively cooked. I might, but it at least has to wait for me to first mention that here, there is 22. Nxf7. Is it enough for drawing chances? Black's kingside pawn majority is currently blockaded on the light squares. Let's just play this out a bit. 22...Re8 23. Nh6 Re4 24. Ng8 <Rc4> 25. Nf6 b6 26. Kh2 Bd7 27. Rd1 Rxh4+. That's not actually much progress, though. 28. Kg3 Ba4 offering to exchange rooks 29. Kxh4 Bxd1. Now Black is a pawn up, in a B vs. N endgame. In my judgment, it's not enough. I had another idea, 24...<Ra4> 25. Nf6 Be2 26. Rf5 b6 27. Nxh5 Rxh4 28. Nf4 Bc4 29. a3 Kb7 30. g3 Rh8 31. g4 Ka6 32. Kf2 Rg8 33. g5 c5 34. Ke3 Re8+:  click for larger viewBlack can win. Else 34. Re5 which holds, I think. |
|
Jun-20-23 | | DanLanglois: I'll start over:
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 3 g5 4. h4 d5 5. d4 dxe4 6.Nxg5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Bb4 <8. Bb5+> Bd7:  click for larger view9. Be2 h6 10. Nxf7 Kxf7 11. Bxf4 Be6 12. O-O Ke7 13. Nb5 Nc6 14. Bxc7 Qg8  click for larger view15. Rxf6 Kxf6 16. a3 Be7 17. c4 Qg6 18. Bh5 Qf5 19. d5 Ne5 20. Bxe5+ Qxe5 21. dxe6 Rhg8 22. Kh1 Qxb2 23. Qf1+ Kg7:  click for larger view23. Qf1+ Kg7 24. Rb1 Qf6 25. Qxf6+ Kxf6 26. Re1 Kf5 27. Nc3 Rg3 28. Nxe4 Rxa3 29. c5 Bxh4 30. Nd6+ Kg5 31. Re5+ Kf6 32. Rf5+ Kxe6 33. Bg4 Rg3 34. Rg5+ Rxg4 35. Rxg4 Bg5  click for larger view36. Nxb7 Kd5 37. Na5 Kxc5 38. Nb3+ Kd5 39. Rd4+ Ke5 40. Ra4 Be3 41. g3 Rb8 42. Na5 Kd5 43. Kg2 Rc8 44. Ra3 Bb6 45. Rd3+ Ke4 46. Ra3 Rc7 47. Ra1 Kd4 48. Rd1+ Ke3 49. Ra1 h5 50. g4 hxg4+  click for larger view0-1
Quite wild. |
|
Jun-20-23 | | DanLanglois: Not really the way to play it maybe, is there a way for Black to just have a safe king? And win, I mean? I am amused by this line: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd4 3. Nf3 <Nf6>, and for example, 4. e5 Nh5 5. d4: click for larger viewThere is lots to love about Black's setup. The knight might look awkward on h4, but does a job of defending the f4 pawn, and also Black is on the way to castling quickly and *safely*, as he's not trying to prove that the pawns on f4 and g4, that common King's Gambit Accepted setup, is good for Black. Playing ...g5 messes up Black's kingside castled position, and if that's not even necessary, then I'm intrigued. 5...d5 6. Be2
 click for larger viewTempting for Black to go ahead and play 6...g5, here. Which of course, I've emphasized how that is a *big* decision. But maybe it's at least better this way than one is used to seeing. 6...g5 7. O-O Rg8 8. c3 Nc6 9. Ne1
 click for larger viewSeems impossible to ignore, as King's Gambits go. Something odd here is that Black doesn't have pawns on f4 and g4, he has pawns instead on f4 and g5. But What happened with that? As I've presented this, White didn't play h4, but why wouldn't he think of that idea here? With Black's night on h5, the 'awkward' placement, White finds it totally unhealthy to contemplate playing h4. And now see what happens, Black can play Black 9...Ng7, that knights job is done and it does get to have another. After 10. Nd2, shall we say, is met by 10...h5:  click for larger viewSo what is White going to do about this? There's not much to be done about it, maybe hope that it's not as bad as it looks. Say, 11. Nd3. If Black replies with 11...Ne7, then it's like this:  click for larger viewI can fire up Stockfish on this, though I'm not simply looking for the best eval, I'm looking for a closed treatment, a closed center. If it's possible to dream of that. And *then*, sure, I'm curious about comp evals. Stockfish 15 gives me 12. a4 for White, here, and it's -0.83 at 24ply. If we go back to White's decision to play 4. e5, he does have alternatives of course. I'm giving the book move. There is also a 4. Nc3 line that goes 4...d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. Nxd5 Qxd5 7. d4:  click for larger viewNothing too great for White. And yes, 7...g5 has its points. Then, 8. Bd3 Nc6 and White finds that 9. Qe2+ is forced. 9...Be7 10. c4 Qd6 11. d5 Nb4 12. Bb1 give this:  click for larger viewStockfish 15 gives 12...Bg4 for -0.62 at 24ply. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: I'll give another alternative for White, as it may seem intuitive to suppose that White must have some 'innocuous' way of improvising against this. Thus, after 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 what about <4. d3>. After 4...d5 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. dxe4 White is offering an exchange of queens, but it's good for Black to take it with 6...Qxd1 7. Kxd1: click for larger viewStockfish 15 gives 7...Bb4 for -1.00 at 26ply. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: Yet, I prefer not to speculate on whether that's a 'won endgame'. Maybe stay in the middlegame? <1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 what about <4. d3>> 4...Nc6 5. Bxf4 d5 6. Nbd2 Bc5 7. c3 O-O 8. Qc2 h6 9. O-O-O Re8 10. d4 dxe4:  click for larger viewHere, Stockfish 15 gives 11. dxc5 and -0.61 at 24ply. More fun in that it's not an endgame, but we want Black to be having all the fun. 11...exf3 12. Nxf3:  click for larger view12...Qe7 13. Bd3:
 click for larger viewStockfish gives 13...Bg4 for -0.70 at 24ply. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: <1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 what about <4. d3>> 4...Nc6 5. Bxf4 d5 6. Nbd2 Bc5 7. c3 O-O 8. Qc2 h6 9. O-O-O Re8 10. d4 dxe4 11. dxc5 exf3 12. Nxf3 Qe7 13. Bd3 Bg4 let's take this out so it's quite clear how White might not wind up being healthy. 14. b4 Bxf3 15. gxf3 Nh5 16. Bd2 Ne5 17. Bh7+ Kh8 18. <Rhe1> Qh4 19. Qe4:  click for larger viewBlack plays 19...Qxh2 and can win.
Why should White give up the h-pawn like this? For lack of ideas. Maybe 18. <Be4> c6 19. Kb1:  click for larger viewBlack plays 19...Qh4 and can win. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: What about 19...Qh4 20. Be1:
 click for larger view20...Qh3 21. Bg3
 click for larger viewBlack has 21...Nxg3 and can, yes, can win. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: 22. hxg3 Qxg3 23. Qc1 Nxf3:
 click for larger viewBlack is -+, to say the least. But let's consider 24. Rxh6+ while we're at it:  click for larger view24...Kg8 is the move. 25. Bh7+ Kf8:
 click for larger view-+ |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: Hold my feet to the fire, I can't give that as being simply 'won'. After, perhaps, 26. Rhh1, Black can offer a queen exchange with 26...Qg5. Then, 27. Qxg5 Nxg5 gives this: click for larger view28. Bc2:
 click for larger view28...Rad8 29. Rh8+:
 click for larger viewBlack can play 29...Ke7 then 30. Re1+ Ne6 31. Rh7  click for larger viewI'm still looking at this, because it seems like being up a pawn with not a pawn majority but better, two connected pass pawns, Black sounds like he's won. But we need to think of White's defensive resources, here. It's not that it's a bad problem for Black to be having, it's a bad problem for White to be having. But, it's interesting. 31...Rg8 32. Bb3 Rd2 33. Bxe6 fxe6:
 click for larger view34. Rg1 White is trying to break this up.
Maybe try a different tack.
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3
4...Nc6 5. Bxf4 d5 6. Nbd2 Bc5 7. c3 O-O 8. Qc2 h6 9. O-O-O Re8 10. d4 dxe4 11. dxc5 exf3 12. Nxf3 Qe7 13. Bd3 Bg4 14. b4 Bxf3 15. gxf3 Nh5 16. Bd2 Ne5 17. Bh7+ Kh8 18. Be4 c6 19. Kb1 Qh4 20. Be1 Qh3 21. Bg3 and here, I was considering 21...Nxh3. Then, 22. hxg3 Qxg3 gives this:  click for larger viewBlack looks like he has a plan, but White can try to break this up, these kingside pawns. 23. Qc3 Nxf3 24. Rxh6 intriguing shot:
 click for larger viewSo maybe White breaks things up this way. 24...Kg8 25. Bh7+ Kf8 26. Rhh1 Qg5 offering queen exchange 27. Qxg5 Nxg5 28. Bc2:  click for larger viewBlack can play 28...<Rad8>. So this is intriguing, if Black actually doesn't have enough to win. Maybe it's worth considering 28...<Ke7>, and 29. Rde1+ Kd7 30. Bf5+ Kc7 31. Rhg1 Rxe1+ 32. Rxe1 g6 White can sack the bishop for these dangerous pawns 33. Bxg6 fxe6 34. Re5:  click for larger viewQuestion is can Black win, no question Black is up a piece. It's not the win, though. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 Nc6 5. Bxf4 d5 6. Nbd2 Bc5 7. c3 O-O 8. Qc2 h6 9. O-O-O Re8 10. d4 dxe4 11. dxc5 exf3 12. Nxf3 Qe7 13. Bd3 Bg4 14. b4 Bxf3 15. gxf3 Nh5 16. Bd2 Ne5 17. Bh7+ Kh8 18. Be4 c6 19. Kb1 Qh4 20. Be1 Qh3 21. Bg3 Nxh3 22. hxg3 Qxg3 23. Qc1 Nxf3 24. Rxh6+ Kg8 25. Bh7+ Kf8 26. Rhh1 Qg5 27. Qxg5 Nxg5 28. Bc2 Rad8 29. Rh8+ Ke7 30. Re1+ Ne6 31. Rh7 <Rg8> I was noodling with this, wondering if Black can win.  click for larger view32. Bb3:
 click for larger viewI had posted 32...Rde8, but maybe 32...Rd3:
 click for larger view-+ |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: Forces the exchange of the minor pieces, but Black's connected passed pawns get broken up after 33. Bxe6 fxe6. It becomes quite debatable in my mind whether Black should actually win this. But I think the rook is nice on d3, attacking the pawn on c3. 34. Rg1 looks like this: click for larger view |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: Noting that I think maybe Black makes no progress. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3, and supposing 4...<d5> 5. Nc3 <Nc6>, we might get 6. exd5 Nxd5 7. Nxd5 Qxd5 8. Bxf4: click for larger viewWhite has recovered the pawn but not without cost. Black can play 8...Bf5 -+. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: 9. Bxc7, to be clear, Black allowed this deliberately. 9...Bc5: click for larger viewWe see who is the gambiteer. Now, I am happy. I mean sure, White can play 10. d4 and give it up, 10...Nxd4 11. Nxd4:  click for larger viewI like Black, and maybe here Black plays 11...Bxd4. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: I'd be happier if I could convince myself about 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. <Nc3>. Here, after 4...d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. Nxd5 Qxd5 7. d4 g5 8. Bd3. I was talking about 8...Nc6 here, but there is also Be7 and 9. O-O: click for larger viewBlack can play 8...Bg4, and Stockfish 15 gives -0.78 for this at 24ply. |
|
Jun-21-23 | | DanLanglois: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3. Here, after 4...d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. Nxd5 Qxd5 7. d4 and play 7...<Be7> first, here, because 7...<g5> allows 8. Qe2+. I'd rather force my line. After 7...<Be7> 8. Bd3 g5 we've transposed back, and 9. O-O, we've got 9...Bg4. |
|
Jul-08-23 | | DanLanglois: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3. Here, after 4...d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. <Bb5+> Nc6 7. O-O a6 8. Bxc6+ bxc6 9. Qe2+ Qe7 10. <Qf2> Nxc3 11. bxc3 Be6: click for larger view12. d4 g5 13. Qe2 Qd8:
 click for larger view14. Qe4 Be7 15. Qxc6+ Kf8 16. c4 Bf6:
 click for larger view 10. <Ne5>
 click for larger view10...g5 11. Re1 Be6 12. d4 Bg7 13. Bd2 Nxc3 14. Bxc3 O-O 15. Nxc6 Qxd6 16. Qf3 Bd7 17. Ne7+ Kh8 18. Qd5 h6 19. Rad1 a5 20. Rd2 Bf6 21. Qxd6 cxd6 22. Rd3 Rfe8 23. d5 Kf7 24. Kf2 g4:  click for larger view-+ |
|
Jul-08-23
 | | perfidious: Dang, <Ah> thought <nad> had no respect for this opening. |
|
 |
 |
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
|
|
|