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Jun-30-11 | | JoergWalter: To be true : if there is one player I do not like - it is Botwinnik. and the next is his scholar Kasparov. I do not know why exactly but these guys are a pain in the ass. |
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Jul-02-11 | | JoergWalter: <BobCrisp: <A Legend On the Road> includes this snippet from the <Dayton Chess Club Review>, June 1964:
<He said that in New Orleans he had given a short talk in which he compared Paul Morphy with the Russians. He said that Morphy in his short 3-year-career had created more interesting and beautiful games and had done more for chess than Botvinnik had done in 30-odd years of dull plodding. "That made a hit with New Orleanders," said Fischer (laughter).>> |
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Jul-02-11 | | bronkenstein: That story is far from the truth , speculative @ best (not even that IMO). Botvinnik as a player , fighter and contributor is something totally different ... same could be said for his famous pupil , Kaspy. Slimy egocentric sub-persons, but titans of chess. |
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Jul-02-11
 | | perfidious: <bronkenstein: Botvinnik...and Kaspy... Slimy egocentric sub-persons, but titans of chess.> Pity it takes a certain kind of monomania and egocentricity to scale the summit of Everest, in any endeavour, which is hardly compatible with being a 'normal' human being. |
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Jul-03-11 | | JoergWalter: <bronkenstein, perfidious> some egotism of this sort is inevitable...excellent work is not done by "normal" people. the gift for chess is one of the most specialized talents and some people who have it make almost any sacrifice in order to cultivate it to the full. However, Botvinnik sacrificed the career of other talented players to promote his own. And Kasparov should keep in mind that his unusually great chess talent does not distinguish him for general ability or versatility. |
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Jul-03-11
 | | perfidious: While Keres isn't one of my favourite players, as a man, I admire him more than any other great except probably Bronstein. In that respect they were two giants, though they never ascended the heights of Olympus. |
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Jul-03-11 | | JoergWalter: <perfidious> Keres never had negative PR as far as I know. Concerning his chess I am only familiar with the 4 games in Fischer's book my 60 memorable games and a short remark in Capablanca's last lectures. About Bronstein I read quite controversial things. so I really don't know. maybe you can give some reason for your appreciation of Bronstein.
(of course I own his marvellous book on Zurich 1953 and the 200 open games, both books show how serious he is about teaching well) |
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Jul-03-11 | | bronkenstein: <maybe you can give some reason for your appreciation of Bronstein> Things he played , wrote , said , did ... made people , including great majority of GMs , admire him as a person and chessplayer. Go through these pages and read , there is many links , photos , quotes ( good part of them , unfortunately , covering only the Zurich controversy ... but that`s the main reason for majority of us to post and argue ... human nature i guess =) He made some controversial claims in last few years of his life , but (even if we accept it as imagination mixed with bitterness and senility and not the truth ) Keres would definitely have MUCH more to say , who knows what would happen if he only lived a decade or two longer . |
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Jul-03-11 | | JoergWalter: I understand that Bronstein was an original and independent mind in chess and also in his appreciation of the Botvinnik structure and the politics involved. Unfortunately, his statements give plenty of room for (mis)-interpretation. However, as much as Botvinnik is credited for a "scientific" approach to chess and being the father of "modern chess" in the USSR there should be someone who monitors the damage Botvinnik has done. |
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Jul-08-11 | | Karpova: Interesting C.N. 7137 <Botvinnik’s match record> William Hartston: <‘I had a conversation with Spassky last year which I think throws some light on C.N. 526 (Botvinnik’s match record). I had always supposed that Botvinnik took his first matches rather lightly, in the knowledge that he had the right to a return match if he lost. Spassky’s explanation was more convincing, bearing in mind what we know about Botvinnik’s meticulous approach. He claimed that Botvinnik had already started his preparations for the return match while the first match was in progress. Indeed, one might even accuse him of using the first match as part of those preparations. The exhausting process of winning through the qualifying tournaments, then beating Botvinnik left Smyslov and Tal too exhausted to put up a fight in the “serious” match which followed. With that gloss on chess history, we should perhaps be less impressed with the achievements of Bronstein and Smyslov in 1951 and 1954 in “only” drawing with a man who was just sizing them up for the big fight. Spassky said that he once told Botvinnik of his conclusions; the old man just glared at him and said, “You are very clever”.’> Link: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... |
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Jul-08-11 | | Petrosianic: <With that gloss on chess history, we should perhaps be less impressed with the achievements of Bronstein and Smyslov in 1951 and 1954> The argument makes no sense, for the reason that Botvinnik didn't have a return match clause in those years. All he had those times was the right to join the next challenger in a 3-way match against the new champion. But that would have been three years later. |
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Aug-13-11 | | BobCrisp: From the April-May 1981 <CHESS>: <Botvinnik in London
Mikhail Botvinnik, for 14 years World Champion, has hardly played serious chess in the last ten years. Leonard Barden, at 48 hours' notice, organised a simultaneous display with clocks for him against 8 of England's strongest juniors. He lost to Jacobs (17) and Conquest (14), drew with King (17), Dickenson (16) and Lane (16), beating Hodgson and Hawksworth (17) and Byron (18). The boys' score, 3.5-4.5, was the best ever made against him in a simul in his entire career. The strength of British youth is becoming notorious. Clocks made the single player's task much harder. The champion took it well, saying he hoped his opponents had learnt something; he certainly had. Though his hair has turned snow-white, he has the healthy look and springy step of a man half of his 70 years.> <Botvinnik> was in London to attend a computer conference at which he read two papers relating to his chess computer work. Only two of the games are in the DB:
Botvinnik vs Byron, 1981
Botvinnik vs Jacobs, 1981 |
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Aug-17-11
 | | Troller: 100 year centenary for this legend, and not a single kibitz today? |
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Aug-17-11 | | SimonWebbsTiger: @<Troller>
give it time. People might not yet realise it is the 100th birthday of the Patriach. I have been having a fun time working through his 3 volume book of games this year. Fascinating stuff, of course. I've also been reading a lot of what others said and thought of him recently, such as an article in <New In Chess> 2009 by Genna Sosonko or Kasparov in <My Great Predecessors>. There's much that doesn't sound nice about him, from such accounts. But such is the case with many a complex human character. His approach to chess and his world championship record, though, are more interesting. Just like I am not interested too much in Fischer the person as Fischer the GM and champion. |
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Aug-17-11 | | plimko: "Memorial Botvinnik":
Open
http://www.totalchess.spb.ru/
Seniors
http://www.obninskchess.ru/chess/to... SuperRapid (with Anand, Carlsen, Aronian, Kramnik) at the beginning of September in Moscow http://chessvibes.com/calendar/even... |
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Aug-17-11 | | coolchess1: Happy Birthday to Mikhail wherever he is. One of the toughest competitors who claimed his world crown several times. Great mental strength he had and as per many first true chess professional who gave great emphasis on mental and physical preparation for the game of chess. Absolute legend of chess! |
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Aug-17-11 | | whiteshark: <Yes, I have played a blitz game once. It was on a train, in 1929.> -- Mikhail Botvinnik
Honestly, did you ever think that this is true? |
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Aug-17-11 | | JoergWalter: <whiteshark: Honestly, did you ever think that this is true?>
Truth and Botvinnik - too many ????. Botvinnik a prototype of a political animal. (e.g. what happened with Ismailov, Bohartyrchuk, Bronstein)
A cornerstone of his reputation is the (imo) completely overrated game against Capablanca (AVRO 1938). |
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Aug-17-11 | | BobCrisp: <Honestly, did you ever think that this is true?> In <Botvinnik>'s case, yes. He was a prototypical Soviet man of iron will and fastidious habits. |
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Aug-17-11
 | | HeMateMe: A tale of Two Mishas--the Exciting 1960 match that made Tal the youngest champion in history. Fighting chess. Great book, highly recommended. |
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Aug-17-11 | | whiteshark: <JoergWalter> + <BobCrisp> Thanks. My guess is that you have covered the full range of opinions. |
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Aug-17-11 | | whiteshark: Todays WELCOME MESSAGE FROM THE FIDE PRESIDENT KIRSAN ILYUMZHINOV "Today is a remarkable date for the chess world – the 100th anniversary of a chess legend Mikhail Botvinnik. Mikhail Botvinnik is known as one of the greatest chess players of the twentieth century, the founder of the Soviet chess school and three-times World Chess Champion. Mikhail Botvinnik played a major role in the chess life of his generation which led chess to a new, state level of its development. Due to his outstanding chess career and achievements people of his country learned more about chess and it gradually entered every Soviet family. He is not only the "Patriarch" of the Soviet chess school but also a wise mentor of such noble chess players as Anatoly Karpov, Garry Kasparov and Vladimir Kramnik among the others. Anyone who loves chess will always remember his style of play and his brilliant games against Capablanca, Tal, Smyslov. These games helped many people learn and fall in love with chess. Playing top class chess for decades, being an eminent chess author, one of the pioneers of computer chess and one of the openings theory researchers, Botvinnik is widely regarded as the most influential chess contributor in the world. We are paying tribute to the first world class player who will be in our hearts forever." http://www.fide.com/component/conte... Photo Smyslov-Botvinnik, 1954: http://www.fide.com/images/stories/... |
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Aug-17-11 | | polarmis: Here's 89-year-old GM Yuri Averbakh talking about Botvinnik - a fascinating insight into both the great man's positive and negative sides: http://whychess.org/en/node/1410 |
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Aug-17-11 | | JoergWalter: It is a kind of tragedy that Botvinnik couldn't decipher and program the early Capablanca (or Tal) style to a computer. Brute force showed superior. Same with his style of preparation and masterminding the soviet chess school which was outperformed by Fischer. |
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Aug-17-11
 | | kingfu: Thank you , whiteshark.
I started playing serious Chess because of Bobby Fischer. I have ALWAYS played The French Defense because of Mikhail Botvinnik. Spasibo Maestro and Happy Birthday. |
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