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Garry Kasparov
Kasparov 
Photograph courtesy of kasparovagent.com.  

Number of games in database: 2,465
Years covered: 1973 to 2024
Last FIDE rating: 2812 (2783 rapid, 2712 blitz)
Highest rating achieved in database: 2851
Overall record: +695 -107 =709 (69.5%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games in the database. 954 exhibition games, blitz/rapid, odds games, etc. are excluded from this statistic.

MOST PLAYED OPENINGS
With the White pieces:
 Sicilian (192) 
    B30 B31 B50 B40 B33
 Ruy Lopez (104) 
    C92 C84 C97 C67 C80
 Queen's Gambit Declined (91) 
    D37 D35 D31 D38 D30
 Nimzo Indian (91) 
    E32 E34 E21 E20 E46
 Queen's Indian (78) 
    E12 E15 E17 E16
 Slav (61) 
    D10 D18 D15 D11 D17
With the Black pieces:
 Sicilian (350) 
    B90 B84 B80 B93 B83
 King's Indian (158) 
    E92 E97 E80 E60 E86
 Sicilian Najdorf (113) 
    B90 B93 B96 B92 B97
 Grunfeld (104) 
    D85 D97 D76 D87 D78
 Sicilian Scheveningen (78) 
    B84 B80 B83 B81 B82
 English (35) 
    A15 A10 A11 A13
Repertoire Explorer

NOTABLE GAMES: [what is this?]
   Kasparov vs Topalov, 1999 1-0
   Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985 0-1
   Kasparov vs Portisch, 1983 1-0
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1990 1-0
   Kasparov vs Kramnik, 1994 1-0
   Kasparov vs Anand, 1995 1-0
   Karpov vs Kasparov, 1993 0-1
   Kramnik vs Kasparov, 1994 0-1
   Adams vs Kasparov, 2005 0-1
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1986 1-0

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS: [what is this?]
   Karpov - Kasparov World Championship Match 1984/85 (1984)
   Karpov - Kasparov World Championship Match (1985)
   Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Rematch (1986)
   Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1987)
   Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1990)
   Kasparov - Short PCA World Championship Match (1993)
   Kasparov - Anand PCA World Championship Match (1995)
   Kasparov - Kramnik Classical World Championship Match (2000)

NOTABLE TOURNAMENTS: [what is this?]
   Banja Luka (1979)
   World Youth U26 Team Championship (1981)
   USSR Junior Championship (1977)
   Sokolsky Memorial (1978)
   Niksic (1983)
   Baku (1980)
   World Junior Championship (1980)
   Tilburg Interpolis (1989)
   Belfort World Cup (1988)
   Intel World Chess Express Challenge (1994)
   Belgrade Investbank (1989)
   Linares (1999)
   Hoogovens Group A (1999)
   USSR Championship (1981)
   Valletta Olympiad (1980)

GAME COLLECTIONS: [what is this?]
   Kasparov The Killer!! by chezstartz
   Kasparov The Killer!! by Zhbugnoimt
   Kasparov The Killer!! by wvb933
   Kasparov The Killer!! by rpn4
   GK Collection on the move to Fredthebear's den by fredthebear
   0ZeR0's collected games volume 66 by 0ZeR0
   0ZeR0's collected games volume 166 by 0ZeR0
   Power Chess - Kasparov by Anatoly21
   Selected Games of Kasparov’s Chess Career by Cosmo Fan
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by feifo
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by alip
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by Sergio X Garcia
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by rpn4
   Garry Kasparov's Best Games by KingG

GAMES ANNOTATED BY KASPAROV: [what is this?]
   Kasparov vs Karpov, 1987
   Kasparov vs I Ivanov, 1978

RECENT GAMES:
   🏆 Champions Showdown 9LX
   Kasparov vs Aronian (Oct-31-24) 0-1, unorthodox
   Caruana vs Kasparov (Oct-31-24) 1-0, unorthodox
   Kasparov vs Sevian (Oct-30-24) 1-0, unorthodox
   G Oparin vs Kasparov (Oct-29-24) 1/2-1/2, unorthodox
   Kasparov vs Shankland (Oct-29-24) 1-0, unorthodox

Search Sacrifice Explorer for Garry Kasparov
Search Google for Garry Kasparov
FIDE player card for Garry Kasparov

GARRY KASPAROV
(born Apr-13-1963, 62 years old) Russia
PRONUNCIATION:
[what is this?]

One of the greatest players of all time, Kasparov was undisputed World Champion from 1985 until 1993, and Classical World Champion from 1993 until 2000. Known to chess fans world wide as the <Beast From Baku> on account of his aggressive and highly successful style of play, his main early influence was the combative and combinative style of play displayed by Alexander Alekhine.

Early Years

Originally named Garry Kimovich Weinstein (or Weinshtein), he was born in Baku, in what was then the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic (now the Republic of Azerbaijan), and is the son of Klara Shagenovna Kasparova and Kim Moiseyevich Weinstein. At five years old, young Garry Weinstein taught himself how to play chess from watching his relatives solve chess puzzles in a newspaper. His immense natural talent was soon realized and from age 7, he attended the Young Pioneer Palace in Baku (where for some time he was known as "Garry Bronstein".*). At 10, he began training at the Mikhail Botvinnik Soviet chess school. He was first coached by Vladimir Makogonov and later by Alexander Shakarov. Five years after his father's untimely death from leukemia, the twelve year old chess prodigy adopted the Russian-sounding name Garry Kasparov (Kas-PARE-off) a reference to his mother's Armenian maiden name, Gasparyan (or Kasparian).

Championships

Junior Twelve-year old Kasparov won the Soviet Junior Championship, held in Tbilisi in 1976 scoring 7/9, and repeated his success in 1977, winning with a score of 8½ of 9. The next several years were spent marking his rise as a world-class talent. He became World Junior Champion in 1980 in Dortmund, the same year he earned the grandmaster title.

National He first qualified for the Soviet Chess Championship at age 15 in 1978, the youngest ever player at that level. He won the 64-player Swiss system tournament at Daugavpils on tiebreak over Igor Ivanov, to capture the sole qualifying place. He was joint Soviet Champion in 1980-81 with Lev Psakhis ** and in 1988 Kasparov and Anatoly Karpov tied in the Super-Soviet Championship***. In 2004, Garry Kasparov won the Russian Championship Superfinal (2004) with a stunning +5 score.

World On the basis of his result in the 1981 Soviet Championship, which doubled as a zonal tournament for the USSR region, he earned a place in the 1982 Moscow Interzonal tournament, which he won, to qualify for the Candidates Tournament matches that were held in 1983 and 1984. At age 19, he was the youngest Candidate since Robert James Fischer, who was 15 when he qualified in 1958. At this stage, he was already the #2-rated player in the world, trailing only world champion Karpov on the January 1983 list. These Candidates matches were the first and last Candidates matches Kasparov contested, as he declined to participate in the Candidates held under the auspices of the PCA in 2002 to decide a challenger to his successor as classical World Champion, Vladimir Kramnik. Kasparov's first Candidates match in Moscow was a best-of-ten affair against Alexander G Beliavsky, whom he defeated 6–3 (+4 -1 =4). After much political ado, Kasparov defeated Viktor Korchnoi in London in the best-of-12 semi-final match by 7–4 (+4 -1 =6), and in early 1984 in Vilnius he defeated former World Champion Vasily Smyslov in the best-of-16 finals played by 8.5-4.5 (+4 =9 -0) to earn his challenge against Karpov. By the time the match with Smyslov was played, Kasparov had become the number-one ranked player in the world with a FIDE rating of 2710. He became the youngest ever world number-one, a record that lasted 12 years until being broken by Vladimir Kramnik in January 1996 and again by his former pupil, Magnus Carlsen in 2010.

At one stage during the Karpov - Kasparov World Championship Match (1984/85), Kasparov trailed 5-0 in the first-to-win-6 match. He then fought back to win three games and bring the score to 5–3 in Karpov's favour after 48 games, making it the longest world championship match ever. At that point, the match was ended without result by the then FIDE President, the late Florencio Campomanes, with Karpov thus retaining the title. Further details can be found in the match link at the head of this paragraph. Kasparov won the best-of-24 games Karpov - Kasparov World Championship Match (1985) in Moscow by 13–11, winning the 24th and last game with Black. He was then 22, the youngest ever World Champion, and broke the record held by Mikhail Tal for over 20 years. Karpov exercised his right to a rematch, the Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Rematch (1986), which took place in 1986, hosted jointly in London and Leningrad, with each city hosting 12 games. Kasparov won 12½–11½, retaining the title. The fourth match, the Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1987) was held in Seville. Karpov had been directly seeded into and won the final match of the Candidates' Matches to again become the official challenger. Kasparov retained his title by winning the final game and drawing the match 12–12. The fifth and last championship match between the two, Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1990), was held in New York and Lyon in 1990, with each city hosting 12 games. Kasparov won by 12½–11½. In their five world championship matches, the combined game tally was +21 -19 =104 in Kasparov's favour.

Kasparov subsequently defended his title against Nigel Short under the auspices of the PCA in 1993, and against Viswanathan Anand in 1995. Five years later, in 2000 (Kasparov - Kramnik Classical World Championship Match (2000)), Kasparov finally relinquished his crown to his former student, Vladimir Kramnik, who was granted the right to challenge without having to qualify, the first time this had happened since 1935, when Alexander Alekhine selected Max Euwe as his challenger. Subsequently, Kasparov remained the top rated player in the world, ahead of both Kramnik and the FIDE World Champions, on the strength of a series of wins in major tournaments.

Under the "Prague Agreement" which was put together by Yasser Seirawan to reunite the two titles, Kasparov was to play a match against the 2002 FIDE World Champion Ruslan Ponomariov in September 2003. But this match was cancelled when Ponomariov was dissatisfied with the terms of the contract. Subsequent plans for a match against 2004 FIDE World Champion Rustam Kasimdzhanov, to be held in January 2005 in the United Arab Emirates, fell through due to lack of funding. Shortly after this, Kasparov announced his retirement from competitive chess.

In an interview in 2007, Kasparov said that <…my decision in 1993 to break away from the world chess federation, FIDE, with Nigel Short was the worst mistake of my career. It was a serious miscalculation on my part. I thought we could start fresh with a professional organisation, but there was little support among the players. It led to short-term progress in commercial sponsorship for chess, but in the long run hurt the game...> ****

Classical Tournaments

In 1978, Kasparov won the Sokolsky Memorial tournament in Minsk as a wild card entry, a victory which convinced Kasparov he could aim for the World Championship. He played in a grandmaster tournament in Banja Luka, Yugoslavia in 1979 while still unrated, due to Korchnoi's withdrawal. He took first place with an undefeated record, two points ahead of the field. Game Collection: Banja Luka 1979 He emerged with a provisional rating of 2595, immediately landing at world number 15, a feat only surpassed by Gata Kamsky in July 1990. His first win in a superclass-level international tournament was scored at Bugojno, Yugoslavia in 1982, and his win in Linares in 2002 was the tenth victory in a row, a record for the most consecutive victories in super tournaments: Linares 4 (1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, Wijk aan Zee 3 (1999, 2000, 2001), Sarajevo 2 (1999, 2000) and Astana 1 (2001). Kasparov also holds the record for most consecutive professional tournament victories, placing first or equal first in 15 individual tournaments from 1981 to 1990. It started with the 1981 USSR Championship and finished in Linares in 1990. His five epic title matches against Karpov were held during this period. Subsequently, Kasparov won Linares again in 1992, 1993, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2005, the latter being his swan song from the game.

Olympiads

Kasparov played in eight Olympiads. He represented the Soviet Union four times, in 1980, 1982, 1986 and 1988, and Russia four times: in 1992, 1994, 1996 and 2002 playing board 1 on each occasion apart from 1980 (2nd reserve) and 1982 (2nd board). In 82 games, he scored (+50 =29 -3), for 78.7% and won a total of 19 medals, including 8 team gold medals, 5 board golds, 2 performance golds, 2 performance silvers and 2 board bronzes. Kasparov also represented the USSR once in Youth Olympiad competition at Graz in 1981, when he played board 1 for the USSR board 1, scoring 9/10 (+8 =2 -0), the team winning the gold medal.

Team chess

Kasparov made his international teams debut for the USSR at age 16 in the 1980 European Team Championship at Skara and played for Russia in the 1992 edition of that championship. He won a total of five medals including at Skara 1980, as USSR 2nd reserve, 5½/6 (+5 =1 -0), team gold, board gold and at Debrecen 1992, Russia board 1, 6/8 (+4 =4 -0), team gold, board gold, performance silver.

Matches

<Computer> Kasparov defeated the chess computer Deep Thought (Computer) in both games of a two-game match in 1989. In February 1996, he defeated IBM's chess computer Deep Blue (Computer) with three wins and two draws and one loss. In 1997, an updated version of Deep Blue defeated Kasparov 3½–2½ in a highly publicised six-game match. The match was even after five games but Kasparov lost Game 6 - Deep Blue vs Kasparov, 1997 - to lose the match. This was the first time a computer had ever defeated a world champion in match play. In January 2003, he played and drew a six game FIDE Man - Machine WC (2003) match against Deep Junior (Computer). In November 2003, he played and drew a four-game Man - Machine World Chess Championship (2003) against the computer program X3D Fritz (Computer) X3D Fritz, although he was constrained through the use of a virtual board, 3D glasses and a speech recognition system.

<Human – classical> Kasparov played several matches apart from his matches in the World Championship cycles. Full details can be seen at Game Collection: Match Kasparov!.

<Human – rapid> In 1998, Kasparov played a blitz match against Kramnik in Moscow, that match being drawn +7-7=10. He fared better in the 2000 internet blitz match against Judit Polgar, winning one and drawing one. The following year, he played a blitz match against the many times Greek speed chess champion Hristos Banikas of Greece, winning 5 and drawing one. In his 2002 blitz against Elisabeth Paehtz in Munich, he won 6-0. Later in 2002, Kasparov lost a four game rapid match (+1 -2 =1) over two days in December 2002 in New York City against Anatoly Karpov. In 2009 in Valencia, Spain, he again played Karpov, and won the Kasparov - Karpov Rapid Match (2009) 3-1 and the Kasparov - Karpov Blitz Match (2009) by 6-2. In 2011, as part of his Chess In Schools campaign, he played a two game Kasparov - Lagrave Blitz Match (2011) in Clichy France, winning by 1.5-0.5. A few months later in October 2011, he won the Kasparov - Short Blitz Match (2011) 4.5-3.5 (+3 -2 =3), breaking the deadlock after game 7 by winning game 8 to win the match.

<Simuls> In 1985, Kasparov played his first simul against a team, the Hamburg Bundesliga team lead by GM Murray Chandler, and lost 3.5-4.5, the first and only time he lost a simul against a team. In 1987, he played a simul against the same albeit slightly stronger team, but this time he was prepared and crushed the Hamburg players 7-1; later in 1987 he also crushed the Swiss team: Game Collection: Kasparov vs Swiss Team Simul by 5.5-0.5, drawing only with former World Junior Champion Werner Hug. In 1988 he played a simul against the French team in Evry (Game Collection: Kasparov vs French Team Simul), winning 4, drawing one and losing one; he played the French team again in 1989 (Game Collection: Kasparov vs French Team Simul 1989), this time winning three and drawing 3 games. Also in 1988 he played a simul against a group of powerful US Juniors, and won by 4-2 (+3 -1 =2)*****. In 1992, Kasparov played a clock simul against the German team ( Game Collection: Kasparov vs German National Team Simul) which included former title contender Vlastimil Hort with whom he drew, winning 2 and drawing 2. He played a simul against the Argentinean team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Argentinian Team Simul) winning (+7 -1 =4); in 1998 he played the Israeli team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Israeli National Team Simul) winning 7-1, and in 2001 he played the Czech team (Game Collection: Kasparov vs Czech National Team Simul) in Prague, winning by +4 -1 =3.

Rating

Kasparov's ratings achievements include being rated world #1 according to Elo rating almost continuously from 1986 until his retirement in 2005. He was the world number-one ranked player for 255 months, a record that far outstrips all other previous and current number-one ranked players. Kasparov had the highest Elo rating in the world continuously from 1986 to 2005. However, Vladimir Kramnik equaled him in the January 1996 FIDE ratings list, technically supplanting him because he played more games. He was also briefly ejected from the list following his split from FIDE in 1993, but during that time he headed the rating list of the rival PCA. At the time of his retirement, he was still ranked #1 in the world, with a rating of 2812. In January 1990 Kasparov achieved the (then) highest FIDE rating ever, passing 2800 and breaking Bobby Fischer's old record of 2785. On the July 1999 and January 2000 FIDE rating lists Kasparov reached a 2851 Elo rating, which became the highest rating ever achieved until surpassed by Magnus Carlsen in 2013. There was a time in the early 1990s when Kasparov was over 2800 and the only person in the 2700s was Anatoly Karpov.

Other

Under Kasparov's tutelage, Carlsen became the youngest ever to achieve a FIDE rating higher than 2800, and the youngest ever world number one. Kasparov also assisted Anand's preparation for the Anand - Topalov World Championship Match (2010) against challenger Veselin Topalov. Since his retirement, Kasparov has concentrated much of his time and energy in Russian politics. He is also a prolific author, most famously his <My Great Predecessors> series. His politics and authorship are discussed at some detail in the wiki article and at his official website cited below. In 2007, he was ranked 25th in The Daily Telegraph's list of 100 greatest living geniuses and has won 11 Chess Oscars.

Kasparov has been married three times: first to Masha, with whom he had a daughter, Polina (b. 1993), before divorcing; to Yulia, with whom he had a son, Vadim (b. 1996) before their 2005 divorce; and to Daria, with whom he also has a daughter, Aida (b. 2006).

Biography: http://www.kasparovagent.com/garry_... Kasparov's official website: http://kasparov.com/ Kasparov Chess Foundation: http://www.kasparovchessfoundation....

* http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/... ** [rusbase-1] *** [rusbase-2] **** [rusbase-3] ***** http://www.chessbase.com/newsprint....

Wikipedia article: Kasparov

Last updated: 2022-02-28 10:27:37

Try our new games table.

 page 1 of 99; games 1-25 of 2,465  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. Kasparov vs O Vasilchenko 1-0401973KievC03 French, Tarrasch
2. Kasparov vs S Muratkuliev 1-0321973Baku tt U18C77 Ruy Lopez
3. L Zaid vs Kasparov 1-0381973URS-chT JuniorsE61 King's Indian
4. E Magerramov vs Kasparov 0-1351973BakuB45 Sicilian, Taimanov
5. E Kengis vs Kasparov ½-½541973URS-chT JuniorsB88 Sicilian, Fischer-Sozin Attack
6. Kasparov vs O Privorotsky 1-0381974Azerbaijan Team ChampionshipB40 Sicilian
7. R Sarkisov vs Kasparov  0-1391974City Team ChampionshipB56 Sicilian
8. R Sarkisov vs Kasparov 0-1351974City Team ChampionshipE90 King's Indian
9. Kasparov vs Averbakh 1-0481974Moscow clock simC69 Ruy Lopez, Exchange, Gligoric Variation
10. V Gazarian vs Kasparov 0-1561974Baku Schools Team ChampionshipD86 Grunfeld, Exchange
11. O Pavlenko vs Kasparov 0-1341975Baku Cup FinalE71 King's Indian, Makagonov System (5.h3)
12. Romanishin vs Kasparov 0-1321975LeningradA02 Bird's Opening
13. Kasparov vs Smyslov 0-1301975Team GM/Young PioneersC60 Ruy Lopez
14. Kasparov vs Polugaevsky ½-½251975LeningradA07 King's Indian Attack
15. Karpov vs Kasparov 1-0451975LeningradB92 Sicilian, Najdorf, Opocensky Variation
16. Dvoirys vs Kasparov ½-½451975USSR Junior ChampionshipB89 Sicilian
17. Z Einoris vs Kasparov 0-1421975USSR Junior ChampionshipB59 Sicilian, Boleslavsky Variation, 7.Nb3
18. Kasparov vs V Sokolov 1-0321975USSR Junior ChampionshipB67 Sicilian, Richter-Rauzer Attack, 7...a6 Defense, 8...Bd7
19. Kasparov vs E Kengis ½-½271975USSR Junior ChampionshipB52 Sicilian, Canal-Sokolsky (Rossolimo) Attack
20. Vladimirov vs Kasparov ½-½301975USSR Junior ChampionshipE17 Queen's Indian
21. Rizvonov vs Kasparov 0-1371975USSR Junior ChampionshipE17 Queen's Indian
22. Kasparov vs Yermolinsky 0-1481975USSR Junior ChampionshipB05 Alekhine's Defense, Modern
23. Kasparov vs S Gorelov 1-0581975USSR Junior ChampionshipC61 Ruy Lopez, Bird's Defense
24. Kasparov vs Yurtaev 0-1441975USSR Junior ChampionshipB39 Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto, Breyer Variation
25. Kasparov vs B Kantsler 1-0321975Junior competitionA07 King's Indian Attack
 page 1 of 99; games 1-25 of 2,465  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2) | Kasparov wins | Kasparov loses  

Kibitzer's Corner
ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 404 OF 746 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-16-07  JustAFish: <You appear to fail(or refuse) to recognize that such people are not ordinary citizens like me, yet the mindless argument of "it could be you" endlessly gets circulated around in here.>

I find this shocking for two reasons. First, it seems to imply that just because those swept up were not American Citizens (as I am) that that somehow makes it okay. The "it could be you" argument does not literally apply to me, a rather German looking US citizen, but that it applies to SOMEONE, some poor schlep out there, is alarming to me. I love my country, I love Americans. I don't want to see it, and us, turning into China with respect to our judicial practices.

Second, you state, unequivically, that "these people" are "not like you and me." However, earlier you accept that at least 200 of these detainees were released- presumably since it was determined that they didn't have anything to do with terrorism. So, at least 200 of "these people" are, in a very great sense, like you and me.

That this is not intuitively obvious to everyone is baffling to me.

Apr-16-07  JustAFish: <Heck, the capacity of the place right now is 1,100> Well, even the ratio of 200/1100 or 200/2000 is not that conforting. The point I was trying to make is that the accidental sweeping up of people who evidently turned out to have no ties to terrorism, seems to be anything but an isolated incident. Doesn't it strike you as alarming that 200 innocent people were held, for quite some time, in Guantanamo. Never mind the conditions, the simple loss of liberty would be injustice enough.

However, this source, which Cites the US DoD's own numbers, puts the actual current level of detainees at around 385:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...

Apr-16-07  square dance: <That this is not intuitively obvious to everyone is baffling to me.> well put. you summed up my feelings on the issue rather nicely.
Apr-16-07  WillC21: <justafish><However, earlier you accept that at least 200 of these detainees were released- presumably since it was determined that they didn't have anything to do with terrorism.> Well, this might be; let's keep in mind EVERY judicial and criminal system in the world errs more than we would like to see. Plus, just because they were released does not mean we are 100% confident they are innocent. Maybe we just couldn't prove their guilt. This happens often in justice systems as well. Good ole O.J. was not guilty, right?

But, it still stands to reason that these people were primarily identified as "high-risk" by foreigh authorities. The fact that you don't "trust" foreign authorities is irrelevant to me. Why did you even bring a hugely subjective statement(i.e., opinion) like that into this discussion? If Pakistani and Afghani forces can hand over the type of people I provided in links above, then their identification processes are effective enough. In fact, it is most likely saving thousands(or more) of innocent lives.

People need to realize that because of secret intelligence like this terrorist plots have been foiled internationally(e.g., in Britain).

<square dance> You asked me if a few innocent detainees are dragged into the process how do I feel? As I've stated, I feel it still makes it COMPLETELY worth it. I feel I have clearly stated my view on this area, and so I will not state it again.

Apr-16-07  WillC21: <just...><Never mind the conditions, the simple loss of liberty would be injustice enough.> I think a terrorist blast where innocent people get their limbs sprayed all over the place is even more of an injustice.
Apr-16-07  adair10: <WillC21 You asked me if a few innocent detainees are dragged into the process how do I feel? As I've stated, I feel it still makes it COMPLETELY worth it>

If one of these innocent detainees were you, would you still felt COMPLETELY worth it?

Apr-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <adair10> He already answered that.
Apr-16-07  square dance: <He already answered that.> yes, he dodged the question, iirc.

<You asked me if a few innocent detainees are dragged into the process how do I feel? As I've stated, I feel it still makes it COMPLETELY worth it. I feel I have clearly stated my view on this area, and so I will not state it again.> well, sir, i suggest that if you, or someone you cared about were wrongfully detained without due process your opinion on this matter would do a 180 degree change. please, tell me where its been proven that depriving enemy combatants of any sort of due process prevents terrorist attacks. btw, i read your profile and note that you have some biblical quotes in there. your lack of compassion for your fellow man strikes me as wholly unchristian. surely you'll reply that your stance is actually compassionate towards innocent bystanders or something, but i still wonder why it is necessary to deprive these captives of any sort of due process. please tell me how that makes a difference.

Apr-16-07  InfiniteWombat: <square dance>, I was going to ask the same question. It seems to me that <WillC21> is applying a bit of sneakery in his argument, equating lack of due process with increased safety.
Apr-17-07  WillC21: If it was me, I would still feel it is COMPLETELY worth it.(If you choose not to believe me, then so be it, your choice).

My basic stance is that due process in this case(i.e., Guantanamo) is a tremendous waste of time- the primary goal here is to get information in an expeditious manner, if possible, through any means just short of torture(physical), based upon the conditions on which they were turned over in the first place. If it doesn't happen, then release them within a reasonably short timeframe.

I don't view the objective of this to sentence these people through a never-ending series of trials and appeals, or to term them as "good" or "bad", but rather to get information from them to prevent terrorist attacks in the future.

Apr-17-07  square dance: <If it was me, I would still feel it is COMPLETELY worth it.> words like this are easy to type. and, no, i dont believe you. not that i dont believe you would give up your freedom to protect others, but i dont believe you would feel it was "COMPLETELY" worth it if you were locked away for a couple of years for no reason. btw, im not going to ask you to keep repeating yourself since you've made your point clear. im just stating my opinion on what you said.

<My basic stance is that due process in this case(i.e., Guantanamo) is a tremendous waste of time> gee, thats a compelling argument. as long as you think its a waste of then i guess human rights arent really important. anyway, you still dont answer where its been proven that depriving these people of some sort of due process actually prevents terrorist attacks. and since thats your only goal, dont you think these people deserve some sort of benefit of the doubt?(ok, i know you dont) if we're just going to take the word of pakistani or afghani officials that these people are terrorists then we might as well start burning witches again.

Apr-17-07  WillC21: <square dance> You've peppered your response w/ a parenthetical and remarks indicating that you know my response/stance to each of your points, and you're right every time about what I would say, indicating we both well-know one another's points now.

Basically, it's time to agree to disagree. It's certainly not worth ruining the Kasparov page over, and I'm calling it a night now in any event, and probably for good on this particular topic, since things would only get more circular from here-on-out. Interesting discussions though.

Apr-17-07  JustAFish: <I think a terrorist blast where innocent people get their limbs sprayed all over the place is even more of an injustice.>

Agreed. But how is the unwarranted incarceration of innocent people going to make things better? I'm certainly not asking that we let loose nutjobs who are quite clearly determined to maim and kill as many as possible. All I ask is that we set up some system to sort the the true nutjobs from the probably not nutty. Are we that afraid of the effacacy of our own judicial system that we aren't willing to risk due process? If that's the case, why have courts at all? (Anyone who looks suspicious, just throw 'em in jail to be on the safe side.)

Re: Torture and information. One lesson I took from the recent (unwarrented, in my view) capture of British soldiers by the Iranians, is that people will say pretty much anything if subjected to enough of a threat. The Brits, after just a few days, all but "admitted" (with fingers crossed, rhetorically) they had crossed into Iranian waters. If they'd be willing to perform "like trained animals" on tape after just a few days of incarceration, imagine what someone would do after years of interrogation and, yes, torture. How reliable would that information be? I would imagine not very.

Apr-17-07  JustAFish: And... as WillC has done, I'll (try to)leave this as my last post on the subject as well. Sorry for the digression.
Apr-17-07  square dance: <willc21> yes, fair enough. if you have anything to add on this subject feel free to do so on my forum if you wish, even if its a general comment not necessarily directed towards me.

good night.

Apr-17-07  JustAFish: Square dance, I was going to say the same thing about my forum. I would welcome further discussion on various topics there. (And post your worst games there as well. :-) )
Apr-17-07  square dance: <(And post your worst games there as well. :-) )> there isnt enough room on the internet for my worst games. :-)
Apr-17-07  KingG: I'm curious about who these 'Afghani officials' are? Before the US and UK invaded, Afghanistan was under the control of the Taliban, so presumably, they were never the officials in question. And the current governement was only elected in 2004. So who was going out finding these 'terrorists' back in 2001?

Considering the country's history of tribal rivalries, wars, and religious fundamentalism, i don't think i would trust any of these so-called 'officials', who ever they might be, to identify anyone as a terrorist.

From wikipedia: <An Associated Press report asserted that some of the detainees were turned over to the United States by Afghan tribesmen in return for cash rewards. Detainees testified during military tribunals that bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000. The allegations were in transcripts the U.S. government released in compliance with a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by AP.

The first Denbeaux study reproduces copies of several of leaflets, flyers and posters the US Government distributed to advertise the bounty program. Some of the posters were in comic form, to reach the bulk of the Afghan population, who are illiterate.> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanta...

Sounds like a great way to catch terrorists.

As for the Pakistani intelligence officers, i think we should make up our mind. One minute they are accused of not doing enough to catch Al-Qaeda members, including Bin Laden, and even of actually supporting them, and the next they are the ones we trust to identify terrorists for us.

Apr-17-07  DaveyL: Kasparov appeared on the BBC News 24 show Hard Talk last week. You can watch the interview again here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...

The video quality isn't great but it's a good interview - he talks a lot about the (then) upcoming demo.

Apr-17-07  Chesschatology: Hello all,

I have just recieved a copy of Kasparov's new book, "How life immitates Chess". It's rather interesting, if a little odd. It combines chess philosophising, management lessons of war, history, politics and business, a certain amount of self-hero-worship, some interesting autobiographical notes, and a lot of idea about innovation and computing.

All in all, I'm not quite sure what I think about it as a "Serious Work", but it is certainly stimulating, and even very funny at times.

Anyone else?

Apr-17-07  Raskolnikov: <Davolni: <alicefujimori>: <<everybody loves Putin...>If this is true then no one would be supporting Kasparov at all in Russia, but we already know that this is not the case.> In reality everybody does.> My mother was in Russia for a couple of weeks. Actually, she got an impression that nearly everyone she talked to HATES Putin. Some of her acquaintances think there will be a kind of revolution/uproar in Russia in near future
Apr-17-07  acirce: <True, many of the newspapers, including the prominent Nezavisimaya or Independent Gazeta, wrote that the ill-fated protest, organized by the embattled Other Russia, a coalition of opposition groups, was an attempt by the United States and Boris Berezovsky, the Russian oligarch in exile, to destabilize Russia.

Nezavisimaya Gazeta wrote that the unsanctioned protest occurred just a day after Mr. Berezovsky appeared before journalists in London to call for revolution in Russia, and shortly after the release of a report by the United States State Department promising support for free and fair elections in 2007 and 2008. The newspaper erroneously claimed that the report promised financial aid specifically to opposition organizations.

Nezavisimaya Gazeta called Saturday's opposition protest as well as a similar one held in St. Petersburg on Sunday part of a "serious, systematic and consistent effort against Russia, in which the United States is prepared to use any forces and any figures in order to destabilize the country."

Izvestia concurred with Nezavisimaya Gazeta. "The remarks of Berezovsky must be viewed in the context of the Dissenters' March," the newspaper said. "If the oligarch is going to pay anyone for revolution, then it will be them."

The pro-Kremlin Young Guard, which organized a separate demonstration sanctioned by Moscow authorities echoed these sentiments. Speaking before a crowd of 15,000, one of the organization's leaders accused the United States and Mr. Berezovsky of ordering the Dissenters' March, Izvestia reported.

"We are for the continuation of the country's current course," one of Young Guard's leaders told the crowd. "We have won. Russia is ours. The revolution is over.">

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04...

Apr-17-07  Tomlinsky: <As for the Pakistani intelligence officers, i think we should make up our mind. One minute they are accused of not doing enough to catch Al-Qaeda members, including Bin Laden, and even of actually supporting them, and the next they are the ones we trust to identify terrorists for us. >

Well, being seen to make a decision as to who can be trusted and who can not would insinuate that the focus was mainly on actually dealing with terrorism as often stated. But it isn't and so 'they' don't. There is our answer. It really is all quite simple.

Apr-17-07  vlado23: <"We are for the continuation of the country's current course," one of Young Guard's leaders told the crowd.>

sounds like Monty Python.

Apr-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: "But, it still stands to reason that these people were primarily identified as "high-risk" by foreigh authorities. The fact that you don't "trust" foreign authorities is irrelevant to me." I can fully understand that, on occasion, innocent people are mistakenly picked up and held foe questioning. What I cannot accept, however, is that it would take 2-3 years to determine that they were not a threat.
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