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Garry Kasparov vs Anatoly Karpov
"Too Klose for Komfort" (game of the day Dec-08-2016)
Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1990), Lyon FRA, rd 20, Dec-15
Spanish Game: Closed Variations. Flohr System (C92)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 11 OF 11 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-10-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: < RookFile: The whole thing is too complex unless you've got reams of computer analysis squirreled away in your head. >

but back in 1990 they didn't have programs like today. Anything they had was far to weak for reliable analysis. Those guys had to work it out on paper. I remember back in the 80;s when i would use double wide ledger paper and have pages of analysis. It was crazy.

Dec-10-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: < The Boomerang: I love Bobby but Kasparov's achievements far outweigh Fischer's. And don't give me this he studied alone crap that can never be objectively measured. >

For sure. In the 72 match in several of the games he was using the latest and greatest of Russian GM analysis! He had several people providing him data from chess mags and papers from Europe etc. How else would he be prepared to counter their prep?!

Dec-10-18  Howard: Karpov also surpassed Fischer, as far as his chess accomplishments---no question.
Dec-10-18  john barleycorn: <Howard: Karpov also surpassed Fischer, as far as his chess accomplishments---no question.>

Yeah, with a Fischer "retired" it is possible to surpass his chess accomplishments ... no question.

Dec-10-18  Howard: True enough, but Karpov had, arguably, surpassed Bobby by about 1990 or so, in my view.

Bobby was still very much alive at the time. Not only that, it was obviously HIS decision to go into retirement after 1972---ya can't hold that against Karpov or Kasparov.

Dec-10-18  john barleycorn: <Howard: True enough, but Karpov had, arguably, surpassed Bobby by about 1990 or so, in my view.>

Yeah, 18 years after Fischer stopped playing. I am not holding anything against Karpov or Kasparov but any comparison against an inactive Fischer misses the point.

Mar-26-19  dgontar: 37.Rxg6 involves mates, but they are long. The shortest variation (with best moves for black) is I think the one I give below and it is a mate in 9. 37...b1=Q 38.Bxb1 38...Nd3 39.Rg3 Nf4 40.Bxd3+ Nxd3 41.Re4 Bg7 42.Reg4 Kg8 43.Rxg7+ Kf8 44.Nh6 Ne5 45.Rh7 Ng6 46.Rxg6 Ke8 47.Rg8#
Jul-14-20  andrea volponi: 25...Nd3!!=-Bxd3 cxd3-Qd2 De7=
Jul-14-20  Oldisgold: Kasparov will always be Kasparov. He redefined the game. He showed the chess world that dynamic attacking style can overwhelm a strong positional style.
Jul-15-20  SChesshevsky: < 25...Nd3 >

25...Nd3 is nice. After 25. Ng4, Kasparov's position looks so promising that something probably has to be done quickly. White arguably has 6 pieces with prospects toward the king and Black looks to have maybe 4 defenders. With the defender rook hanging, though he is a pawn up.


click for larger view

Seems Karpov had a good idea. Nullify one of the B attackers and the one with the pin seems logical. So after 28. Qg4, looks like white has 5 attackers left versus 4 defenders. Plus Black's rook isn't hanging anymore and he does have a far passed pawn.

Apparently, two problems. Threatening down the e-file and protecting the rook with 25...Qe8 might've cost a valuable tempo. And the LSB was the one better taken off. Both of which seemed important in the attack. But solved with 25...Nd3.

Wondering what Karpov didn't like about 25...Nd3 or if maybe he thought he could defend the attack with the text and just missed something?

Nov-18-20  Viking707: Based on his winning record and the level of competition faced, Kasparov has to be considered the GOAT in chess. Fischer was brilliant, but severely handicapped by his mental illness. I often wonder how Steinitz, Lasker, Morphy, Capablanca or Alekhine would have fared against the great "K's?"
Nov-19-20  Piecetrader: <Viking707: Fischer was brilliant, but severely handicapped by his mental illness> He had a personality disorder, not a mental illness (at least in his career years). The late Fischer we saw back in Iceland was obviously out of his mind.
Nov-19-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: and they say karpov would have beaten Fischer in 75 lol lol lol lol lol

karpov was a joke in this game

Dec-02-20  Justin796: Personality disorders are under the umbrella of mental illness. People should stop trying to be Fischer's psychiatrist.
Dec-02-20  W Westerlund: Lime: if Karpov was such a joke, why didn't Fischer crush him in 1974, "lol lol lol"? You can talk about it until tomorrow, but the truth is that Fischer was terrified, found excuse after excuse and ultimately ran anyway. Great champion.
Dec-02-20  nevski: I agree with you. Fischer was not and would not be a match for Karpov.
Apr-12-21  Chesgambit: 25...Nd3! Black should take b1 bishop
Apr-12-21  Chesgambit: 25...Nd3 Bxd3 cxd3 Qxd3 h5 Ne5! dxe5 Ng5! Nf6 Ba3!
May-09-21  N.O.F. NAJDORF: <Kasparov missed Rxg6!>

Although 37 Rxg6 threatens mate in one move by 38 Rg3/4/5,

there seems to be no imminent mate after

37 Rxg6 Ne7

38 Rxe7 Bg7

May-09-21  N.O.F. NAJDORF: <john barleycorn: I am not holding anything against Karpov or Kasparov but any comparison against an inactive Fischer misses the point.>

It is precisely the fact of Fischer's inactivity which argues against his having been the greatest player of all time.

It isn't just his retirement after becoming world champion, but the fact that he played in just four olympiads, contrived to avoid playing in both the 1965 and 1968 candidates series, almost missed playing in the 1971 series, and refused to defend his title, even after FIDE had largely met his demands.

He didn't play in any international tournaments in 1964 or 1969.

The fact that he was by far the strongest player in the world in 1970-71 does not make him the greatest player of all time.

He protected his ego when others were putting theirs in a position where they could be crushed.

He was entitled not to play, but the fact that he did it so often argues against his supreme greatness.

Jun-17-21  cormier: Depth 40

0.00 25....Nd3 26.Bxd3 cxd3 27.Qd2 Qe7 28.Nxh6 Rxe4 29.Rxe4 Qxe4 30.Qg5 Nf4 31.Kh2 Ne6 32.Qh5 Qh7 33.Rg4 Be4

Jun-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Karpov was LUCKY ...

Bobby swept the chess floor clean for him and he also had the corrupt Commie Rusian Chess Fed behind him ..

The first genuine threat he meets tho .. as in kasparov , he caves in ...

Jun-25-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  0ZeR0: <harrylime>
Fischer would have been the ?first genuine threat? to him had he not gone insane and quit chess.

<he caves in>
Karpov played five world championship matches with Kasparov, losing them all narrowly (except for the first in 1984 which was abandoned without result). That?s not exactly ?caving in.? In reality Kasparov was always slightly better when it mattered most.

Jun-25-21  Viking707: Fischer might have beaten Karpov, but the truth is: he avoided the match because he hated playing against the USSR chess "cooperative," and he knew Karpov was a major talent, and a serious threat. We will never know what actually motivated Fischer to forfeit his world championship rather than play, but it was a great loss to chess history that the Fischer/Karpov matches never occurred.
Jun-25-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  0ZeR0: <Viking707>

Absolutely!

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