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Jun-05-24 | | Whitehat1963: When was the last time a sitting world champion was rated below the top 10? |
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Jun-05-24
 | | perfidious: Who else is so obsessed with Ding's fall?
Some posters hereabout have been hard at their helpings of schadenfreude stew. |
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Jun-08-24 | | Whitehat1963: Hardly obsessed. If I were obsessed, I’d visit this site more often. I’m genuinely fascinated and curious, not gleeful about Ding’s struggles. Why is he struggling so much? And what other champions have dropped out of the top 10? Unfortunately, the Elo rating system isn’t old enough to tell us about the ratings of older champions like Euwe, Botvinnik, Petrosian, etc. who might have experienced similar struggles if only briefly. |
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Jun-08-24 | | fabelhaft: <what other champions have dropped out of the top 10? Unfortunately, the Elo rating system isn’t old enough to tell us about the ratings of older champions like Euwe, Botvinnik, Petrosian, etc> Going by Chessmetrics, Lasker dropped out of the top 10 a few months due to inactivity, while the Edo system has him as constant top 5 from 1888 to 1933. Euwe scored good enough results to be top 10 at Chessmetrics every month from 1927 to 1943, when he dropped off the list because of inactivity. He was top 5 every month from the end on 1932 to mid 1938, and 1st most of the time he was World Champion. Edo has him top 8 from 1926 to 1941, which is the last year covered there. Petrosian was top ten every month from 1953 to 1980 at Chessmetrics. Botvinnik was never outside the top ten as World Champion and top eleven every month from 1934 to 1970. Kramnik was 9th at his worst in the time of two World Champions, when split year FIDE Champions like Khalifman and Kasimdzhanov could be far from top ten. |
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Jun-08-24 | | Whitehat1963: Thanks for the info, <fabelhaft>! |
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Jun-22-24
 | | Teyss: Here is the article provided by Missy on 12th Norway Chess (2024) about Ding's issues: https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/othe... It appears his problems are mainly psychological, as some of us had speculated beforehand. There was some debate on the Norway thread whether Ding deserved to become the WC. The answers were contrasted because they can only be very personal so I won't give my opinion, but a better question actually is: <Does Ding himself think he deserved the title?> Reading this article, probably not. He might be thinking he was just lucky i.e. as reminder the Chinese Federation organising ad hoc matches allowing him to qualify for the Candidats, then Carlsen withdrawing, then always being behind Nepo during the WC and finally winning by a thread in the fourth rapid. All these events might be turning in in head, as well as past shortcomings for instance never winning Wijk aan Zee or the World Cup (which IMHO are not required items on a great player's CV, as Ding is). Hence he's suffering a severe confidence crisis, aggravated by his poor performance since the WC... which further reduces his morale, which hinders his capacity to play as before: it's a vicious circle and I don't see how he can get out of it rapidly, notably to be able to play the WC in November. Quite sad for such a talented and amiable player. |
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Jul-01-24
 | | ketchuplover: GL in Singapore young man |
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Jul-02-24 | | whiteshark: 02/07/2024 -
The Singapore Chess Federation, supported by the Government of Singapore, has won the bid to host the FIDE World Championship Match 2024. The Match will feature the defending Champion <Ding Liren> from China and the Challenger <D Gukesh> from India and will take place <between November 20 and December 15, 2024.> Check out the press release by FIDE. The exact venue, match schedule, rules and regulation will be notified later. Total prize fund of the match is US$ 2.5 Million. https://www.chessbase.in/news/FIDE-... |
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Aug-18-24
 | | ketchuplover: GL in St.Louis young man |
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Aug-30-24
 | | Teyss: Another interview with Ding where he talks about his depression, his emotions, Carlsen, Rapport, Wei Yi, etc.: https://taz.de/Schach-Weltmeister-D... He seems to be such a friendly and honest person, it's sad to see him struggle so much lately. Below is the automated translation, don't know if it's 100% correct. I highlighted the parts relating to his depression. <taz: Mr. Ding, more than a year ago you said that you didn't want to be famous. Then you became chess world champion.> Ding Liren: I'm not very famous. However, at the airport at departure control, a foreign fan asked me to take a photo with me. <They are better known worldwide than in China.> Yes, that may well be the case. Go and Chinese chess Xiangqi are more popular here than Western chess. <So, unlike table tennis aces Ma Long or Fan Zhendong, you can cross the street unmolested?> Certainly. You can see that on social media too. I only have around 20,000 followers there, which isn't that many for a population of billions. <Normally, a title like that just boosts your ego. It makes you feel great. But that was different with you. You fell into a deep hole and were gone for months.> I had some problems, that's true. I was exhausted, but still couldn't sleep very well. <That led to depression. I was treated in a clinic twice. Fortunately, things are slowly getting better.> Chess is mentally exhausting - and if you can't sleep well, that's fatal. At least I was able to reduce the number of tablets I took from four a day to one now. <Are you a sensitive guy? It was also said that you cried after winning the title.> Yes, the World Championship duel lasted so long and was so exhausting. I did my best and after winning the title I thought about all the work before the competition. The emotions and memories overwhelmed me. That's why I had to cry. <You are surprisingly open about your feelings. Doesn't a professional athlete have to be hard on himself and others?> I was probably so tough before I developed my mental problems. That's why I suddenly showed emotions. <Now I'm trying to become more balanced again. I also have a doctor who helps me mentally.> I discuss all sorts of things with him. I don't have a mental coach like the table tennis players who prepares you for the things relevant to the game. <It seems to me that you like to rely on a small number of players. Your team of seconds was also very small, including your Hungarian friend Richard Rapport. Magnus Carlsen, on the other hand, has a whole team of helpers who give him opening ideas.> I don't like having too many people around me. But I had seconds in the background, like Richard, who helped me prepare for the opening. <Are you perhaps too sensitive for a great player? The legends of the chess scene were egomaniacs and completely full of themselves, especially the American Bobby Fischer, but also the Russian Garry Kasparov.> I try to be a nice, friendly person. I also have other hobbies such as football, basketball and table tennis. <As a professional, who do you consider to be the best chess player of all time?> Carlsen and Kasparov are very close. If you measure the number of world championship titles won, Kasparov is one title ahead. He dominated the scene at the time across all time controls - from blitz to rapid to classical tournament chess. Nevertheless, I think Carlsen is the strongest player of all time. <You have already worked with him.> Yes, I was part of his team in Qatar in 2015. We played a few rapid chess games and quite a lot of basketball. We were about as good at basketball, but he is much better at soccer. But neither of us are great speakers, so we didn't talk much. (...) |
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Aug-30-24
 | | Teyss: (Continued)
<Does it get annoying to constantly be asked about Carlsen? You are the world champion.> It's OK for me because he is the strongest player. He also has the biggest influence in the chess world and outside of it. Without him, less would happen. He is a charismatic role model. <Do you see the World Cup title as a gift from him to you?> His decision to stop competing really surprised me! Giving up the title without a fight is a really tough decision. But we also learned that the reason is that he is no longer interested in classical time-controlled chess. He prefers to play blitz or rapid chess with short thinking times. He also relies more on Chess 960. <This is the chess variant in which the starting position is drawn from 960 possibilities before the game. What do you think about it?> I liked it, even though I wasn't that good the first time. Playing without opening variations was like breathing fresh air into a room. But without all the opening knowledge, it's just harder for me to play. Having to think from the first move is unusual and difficult. <After your experience with depression, could you imagine, like Carlsen, foregoing a title defense because it might be too strenuous?> No, it seems unimaginable to me to make such a far-reaching decision. Richard Rapport was a good friend and helped me, especially mentally, to help me cope with the pressure during the World Cup. <Rapport is considered a very original player who has crazy ideas. He probably complements you because he thinks differently than you.> Yes, we have different approaches. That's why it was difficult at the beginning of our collaboration. He plays differently than most. But after we analyzed all the games together, it broadened my horizons and improved my understanding of the game. At the World Cup, he always cheered me up with jokes. <At the current tournament in Karlsruhe, you only won the match for fifth place against qualifier Daniel Fridman. Didn't you expect more?> I didn't want to come last. I managed that. At the last tournament in Germany I came last. I wanted to avoid that. <A modest goal for the world champion.> At first I also thought that I should win a few tournaments after winning the World Cup. Now I inevitably think differently: my record since then has been really bad. <You once thrilled fans with a streak of more than 100 games in which you remained undefeated.> Yes, that's true, but it's been four years. My style has changed. I used to play more solidly and was almost unbeatable, but now I'm more aggressive. That has made me vulnerable and I sometimes lose. <What do you think of 19-year-old Vincent Keymer? Could the German grandmaster become your successor?> He plays very good chess. He beat me twice before Karlsruhe (thinks for a moment). No, sorry, three times! <So you fear him more than Magnus Carlsen?> According to the record, yes. I was only able to beat him once - in an online competition. <Let's talk about table tennis, the Chinese national sport. Do you play it often?> Yes, actually every day when I'm at home.
<With whom?>
With my father Ding Wenjun.
<Who wins?>
I usually win, but it's usually very close. Often, in close sets, I win 4:3. I play with a shakehand grip, and my father, like most Chinese players, plays a penholder. <Your friend Wei Yi, who once became the youngest grandmaster of all time at the age of 11, dedicated a poem to you for the World Championship. He is said to also enjoy playing table tennis. Does he also show off his skills on the table?> The poem really moved me at the time. But he's worse on the record (smiles). He doesn't play so well. <Do you prefer to play chess or table tennis with him?> Table tennis is more fun with him.
<What are your other goals in chess? Perhaps overtake Magnus Carlsen in the Elo world rankings to finally put an end to the questions about him?> I'm happy if I play well in tournaments. |
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Aug-31-24 | | Bobby Fiske: <Teyss> Great job. Thanks! (PS: World Cup should be read as World Championship). Now I think we have a pretty clear picture of Ding Liren and his health issues, past and present.
What about the future? Singapore is only 11 weeks away. Will his play strength still suffer? I fear so. The closer to the match, the more nerve wrecking it becomes. -I remember from one of his first WC matches, when doing his opening move, Magnus Carlsens fingers were trembling. He almost dropped the pawn. It's on YouTube somewhere. Sleepless nights during tournaments is also common. The psychological pressure is extreme. I'm afraid Dings health issues will cloud the match. Of course the pressure is also on Gukesh, but I guess the challenger is a lesser burden than being the defending Champ. Btw, it would be interesting to learn more about Gukesh' personality. To me, he is quite unknown, I have to admit. |
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Sep-01-24
 | | Teyss: Hi Bobby Fiske,
<World Cup should be read as World Championship> You're right, I adjusted mentally when reading the article and forgot to correct afterwards. We're probably dealing with third level translation: English unless they had a Chinese translator -> German -> English. For memo, Ding participated in four World Cups and never won, finishing second in 2017 and 2019. I agree his play won't be at his best in Singapore, but probably so won't Gukesh's because of inexperience. (BTW if you find that video with a trembling Carlsen, I'm interested.) And I feel Ding plays better in matches than tournaments, which will probably result in a fairly balanced WC. That doesn't mean the match won't be exciting, on the contrary. Super solid players give Carlsen vs Caruana, overall tame even if interesting. Here it will probably be full of new ideas, risk-taking and yes some mistakes but without these it's always 0.5-0.5. Somewhat like Nepo - Ding, maybe with more creativity. <Btw, it would be interesting to learn more about Gukesh' personality. To me, he is quite unknown, I have to admit.> Same. We'll know more about him as the WC unfolds, which makes the match even more interesting. |
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Sep-16-24 | | Whitehat1963: Is it at all significant that Ding Liren has fallen out of the top 20? |
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Sep-16-24
 | | plang: It is hardly surprising given his recent results. |
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Sep-16-24 | | Whitehat1963: But will it affect his confidence in the upcoming championship match? |
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Sep-16-24
 | | plang: It is hard to imagine that he has a lot of confidence at the moment. |
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Sep-17-24 | | fabelhaft: It just seems to get worse for every game. I don't recall seeing anything like it with any top player, ever. Over the last year his TPR is 2655, and that is of course far from good for a World Champion. It isn't even close to top 50 level. Oldies like Gelfand, Adams, Shirov and Morozevich have a higher rating. But lately he has played considerably worse than that. In his eight latest games he has drawn five, four against much lower rated opponents in the 2500s and 2600s, and one with white against Abdusattorov who was happy with a quick draw. The three remaining games have been lost, against the opponents that made him play a full game and really work for the draw. Even if it makes little sense to count TPR for such a short period, he has had a 2553 performance over these eight games. Counting only the Olympiad it's 2602, but then he has faced four opponents that were happy to draw, and lost the game with white where he faced an opponent that needed to win. It doesn't look promising for the title match as things are going right now. |
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Sep-17-24 | | Yuri Stremel: <It just seems to get worse for every game> "Broken beyond repair", according to Carlsen |
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Sep-17-24
 | | perfidious: Enough of Ding's epitaphs already; can we simply hope he regains his emotional balance and gets his life back on track? This constant talk of how poorly he is performing is most unfortunate. |
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Nov-03-24 | | fabelhaft: Ding’s results as World Champion:
Bucharest 2023: +1-2=6, TPR 2710, -1 over 9 games Tata 2024: +2-3=8, TPR 2678, -1 over 13 games
Norway Chess 2024: +0-4=6, TPR 2634, -4 over 10 games Sinquefield Cup 2024: +0-2=7, TPR 2676, -2 over 9 games Olympiad 2024: +0-1=7, TPR 2664, -1 over 8 games Total: +3-12=34, TPR 2672, -9 over 49 games
The highest TPR was in the first tournament. Over 2024 the TPRs have been quite even, between 2634 and 2678 in four events. He has a winless streak of +0-7=21 in the last 28 games, after beating Warmerdam (2625) in Tata ten months ago. |
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Nov-25-24 | | rcs784: Ding is back! Today's impressive victory should silence the doubters. |
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Nov-25-24
 | | fredthebear: You mean like Texas Longhorn college football? Never really went away, but is playing better now. Nothing will silence my cyberbully. |
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Dec-12-24
 | | Open Defence: Commiserations Champ. You played the match the best you could and fought hard, coming back from reversals. No drama, no wild accusations, no running, no hiding. |
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Dec-12-24 | | stone free or die: Nice sentiment <OD>. |
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