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Alireza Firouzja vs Ding Liren
FIDE Candidates (2022), Madrid ESP, rd 13, Jul-03
Four Knights Game: Scotch Variation. Accepted (C47)  ·  1/2-1/2



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Kibitzer's Corner
Jul-04-22  VerySeriousExpert: After 11...Bd6? White should play 12.Bxf6! with some advantage. 11...Be7 is the best, it leads to the good Black's position! Moreover, the best White's 4th move is 4.Bc4! with the advantage (Yury V. Bukayev, "Bruno's Chess Problem of the Day": ).
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Expert....Moreover, the best White's 4th move is 4.Bc4! with the advantage....>

Not the first time you have made this claim, but it is bollocks; this has long been known to offer White nothing.

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Is that so perfidy?

Here's what Opening Explorer says about 4.Bc4:

Black to move [Opening Explorer]

1) +0.12 (35 ply) 4...Nxe4 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Nd4 8.Nxd4 exd4 9.Qe2 Be7 10.b3 c6 11.Bb2 Be6 12.Qd3 Bf6 13.O-O h6 14.Rae1 O-O 15.Bh7+ Kh8 16.Bf5 Bxf5 17.Qxf5 Qd6 18.Re4 Rae8 19.Rfe1 Rxe4 20.Rxe4 Kg8 21.Re1 b6 22.d3 b5 23.Re4 c5 24.g3 b4

2) +0.14 (35 ply) 4...Bc5 5.d3 a6 6.O-O d6 7.Nd5 Nxd5 8.Bxd5 Qf6 9.Bg5 Qg6 10.c3 Bb6 11.Be3 Bxe3 12.fxe3 O-O 13.b4 Ne7 14.Bb3 a5 15.a4 axb4 16.cxb4 Be6 17.Bxe6 Qxe6 18.Qc2 c6 19.d4 f5 20.dxe5 dxe5 21.Qc5 fxe4 22.Ng5 Rxf1+ 23.Rxf1

3) +0.21 (35 ply) 4...Bd6 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 h6 7.a3 Bc5 8.b4 Bb6 9.Na4 d6 10.c3 Re8 11.Bd2 Be6 12.Bxe6 Rxe6 13.Re1 d5 14.h3 dxe4 15.dxe4 a6 16.Nb2 Nh5 17.Nc4 Rg6 18.Qe2 Ba7 19.a4 Ng3 20.Qd1 Qe7 21.b5 axb5 22.axb5

4) +0.31 (35 ply) 4...Be7 5.O-O d6 6.Re1 Bg4 7.h3 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 Nd4 9.Qd1 O-O 10.Ne2 Nxe2+ 11.Qxe2 c6 12.c3 Nd7 13.d4 Bg5 14.Bxg5 Qxg5 15.d5 a5 16.a4 Qe7 17.dxc6 bxc6 18.b4 Nf6 19.Qd3 Rfd8 20.b5 cxb5 21.axb5 a4 22.Qe3 a3 23.b6 g6

5) +0.32 (35 ply) 4...a6

6) +0.36 (35 ply) 4...Bb4 5.Nd5 O-O 6.c3 Be7 7.d3 d6 8.a4 Nxd5 9.Bxd5 Bf6 10.O-O Ne7 11.Bb3 c5 12.h3 Bd7 13.Be3 Rc8 14.Nd2 Ng6 15.Bd5 Nf4 16.Bxf4 exf4 17.Bxb7 Rb8 18.Bd5 Rxb2 19.Nc4 Rb8 20.Nxd6 Qe7 21.Nc4 Bxc3 22.Rc1

That's a lot of White + evaluations. Do you know more than Opening Explorer, perfidy?

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Here's an Italian Four Knights Bc4 from the 2018 Candidates tournament: Kramnik vs Aronian, 2018

Former world champion Kramnik played the White pieces against the classically inclined Aronian, one of the few people in the world to cross the 2800 barrier. Not bad company to associate with.

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <fredthebore>, if you actually understood anything re computer evals in the openings....

Possibly you should quit while only slightly behind, but we all know that is not your way.

Cyberstalk away!

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Oh, do please explain computer evals to us all.

Do you know the difference between + and - ??

You're not really much interested in the 2022 Candidates at all, are you perfidy? You just want to attack other members on this website. It's what you do day after day after day after day, year after year after year after year. We've got years, decades of proof.

We're awaiting your explanation of computer evals. Make yourself useful for once, editor.

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Once again perfidy, you bore us. Notice how I provided examples with my posts above. Instead of your false statements, you might provide some actual proof.

Oh do go on w/your lesson, perfidy. We all want to know what + and - means according to you, editor.

Jul-08-22  stone free or die: Fred - time for bed!
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: perfidy's lap dog Z goes everywhere he does. It's too bad Z won't buck up for an avatar.
Jul-08-22  Z truth 000000001: Good morning Fred. Still embarressing yourself? It's a career.
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Same lap dog Z, different sock puppet. No chess information from him either; just pooped by to pester others.

Yes, an argument can be made against the Four Knights, Italian game. Less-than-best moves can be punished by Black. I'm not going to make perfidy's argument for him after he mouths off as usual without presenting any supporting facts as usual.

The great chess teacher and writer Dr. Savielly Tartakower showed perhaps the best and still popular way to play the Four Knights 4.Bc4 Bc5 Italian game back in 1929 (perhaps gleaned from Capablanca's games). Dr. Tartakower uses the Bg5 to provide an opportunity for Nc3-Nd5 centralization, which clears the square for a central pawn advance c3 and d4: Tartakower vs M Monticelli, 1929

Here's another Dr. Tartakower main line example where Black chooses 4...Nxe4 to arrange the center pawn fork trick to hit the Bc4: Tartakower vs Bogoljubov, 1922

Readers can get an overview of the Four Knights variations here:

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: The above 2022 Candidates game was a Four Knights, 4.d4 Scotch variation. It too, can be recommended for White, and defended by Black.

Here are Magnus Carlsen's few games in the Four Knights, 4.d4 Scotch variation (C47): Most were rapid or blitz games. Obviously, a drawish opening at top levels, but so many are.

Jul-19-22  Zappa XP: So many books, so little time.
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Z XP hasn't likely read a book since Michelle Obama's "ashamed to be an American" manifesto.

Here are the users that trash poster Zappa truth 000000001 put on its initial ignore list. This faker is a hater.


Keyser Soze

Count Wedgemore




Mr. President






The Kingfish<1-∞> Cassandro

Travis Bickle






Jack Bauer

Ayertiam 33

Hungry Jack

optimal play

Charlie Durman

In The Woodpile


Big Pawn<1-∞> Mrs Butterworth


Sargon (too much power)

saffuna (too much enabling)

Readers can be certain another sock puppet post operated by the fake Z troll who doesn't-know-chess will follow shortly.

Jul-24-22  DaSlurpyNinja: Stockfish 15 gives 4. Bc4 0.00. Additionally, black scores much better than white after the top move 4... Nxe4. 17% W 39% D 44% B in 215 games in the lichess Master games database.


click for larger view

52/63 0.00 Nxe4 Nxe4 d5 Bd3 dxe4 Bxe4 Bd6 d4 exd4 Bxc6+ bxc6 Qxd4 0-0 Be3 c5 Qc3 Qd7 0-0-0 Qf5 Nd2 Re8 Rhe1 Be6 Nb3 Bd5 Bxc5 Bf4+ Be3 Bxg2 Nd4 Bxe3+ Qxe3 Rxe3 Nxf5 Rf3 Nxg7 Kxg7 Rg1 Rxf2 Rd2 Rf1+ Rd1

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: In the 1980s, I won a game from William Lukowiak in the line mentioned by <Ninja>.
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: A CG statement says that numerous Z accounts such as this <Zappa XP> and <Z truth 000000001> have been disabled.
Oct-30-22  Z truth 000000001: I sure hope you're wrong <fredthebear>, as per usual ... especially for the <Zappa XP> account.


Jan-21-23  Zappa XP: <Z truth 000000001> approved by #FakeNews
Jul-11-23  Saniyat24: what a long list by fred...!
p.s some of them truly are better in the ignore list...

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