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Mar-09-11
 | | ray keene: Ivkov shd have considered the blockading move 9...f5-I wd have been interested to see how Fischer wd have proceeded then. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Damianx: Well he was persistent if nothing else 3 times he Played this against Fisher 4 the same result |
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| May-31-11 | | Ulhumbrus: On 9...f5 one possible choice is 10 Re1 clearing the square f1 for the move Nd2-f1 which in turn clears the square d2 for White's QB. |
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| Jul-30-13 | | jerseybob: Clocked: If you're still out there, by whom was 9..f5 played in 1974? One possible approach might be 10.ef,ef 11.Re1 or 11.c4!? I don't see white's followup after 10.e5,Bc7. |
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| Jul-30-13 | | Nerwal: <by whom was 9..f5 played in 1974?> Dely - Ligterink Amsterdam 1974, but black lost quickly after 10. exd5 exd5 11. ♖e1 ♗c7 12. ♘df3. In some databases there is a game Cuesta - Jansa from 1967 with 9... f5. There 10. e5 ♗c7 11. c3 a5 12. ♘df3 b5 13. d4 was featured and the game ended in a draw later on. |
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| Jul-30-13 | | jerseybob: Nerwal: Thanks for that info. Since Dely-Ligterink isn't in this database, could you post it in its entirety? Thanks in advance. |
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| Jul-31-13 | | Nerwal: Dely,P (2470) - Ligterink,G (2360) [A08]
IBM-B Amsterdam (9), 1974
1.e4 c5 2.♘f3 e6 3.d3 ♘c6 4.g3 d5 5.♘bd2 ♗d6 6.♗g2 ♘ge7 7.0-0 0-0 8.♘h4 b6 9.f4 f5 10.exd5 exd5 11.♖e1 ♗c7 12.♘df3 d4 13.♘g5 ♖b8 14.c3 g6 15.b4 dxc3 16.♕b3+ ♔g7 17.♕xc3+ ♔h6 18.♗b2 ♘d4 19.♕c4 ♕d7 20.♗xd4 b5 21.♕xc5 1-0 |
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| Jul-31-13 | | RookFile: That's cute, but these guys don't exactly match up with Fischer and Ivkov. I'm sure there are improvements. |
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| Jul-31-13 | | Nerwal: Ratings were not as inflated back then. Dely was ranked 124th in the world in 1974 with this 2470 rating and Ivkov had only 2530 on this list. |
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| Jul-31-13 | | jerseybob: Rookfile:There's only so many improvements you can make to this position. 9..f5, with apologies to Ray Keene, is not a very good move. It severely weakens the central squares and opens a path to the black king. |
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| Jul-31-13 | | jerseybob: BTW: Just got done going through several books which contain Fischer-Ivkov, and only one, the Ron Henley/Don Maddox book on the K.I.A., mentions 9..f5, but gives no analysis, just a !? |
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| Jul-31-13 | | RookFile: f5 is a common idea, this is probably the most famous example: Botvinnik vs Reshevsky, 1948 |
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| Jul-31-13 | | jerseybob: Yes, in other settings; Botvinnik-Reshevsky has a lot of differences from Fischer-Ivkov. I wasn't making a blanket condemnation of the move f5, just here, that's all. |
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| Nov-27-14 | | thegoodanarchist: Games like this are why no one ever wonders what happened to world champion Ivkov.... |
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| Nov-27-14 | | Everett: kostich <in time: a typical Fisher kings Indian attack win...this is from the second half of Piatigorsky Cup,when Fischer scored 6 wins and three draws,(after winning only one game in the whole first half!)and pretty much proved that he,and not Larsen,was the best player outside of the USSR> I wonder what Fischer was proving in the first half of the tournament. |
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| Nov-28-14 | | thegoodanarchist: << Everett: ...when Fischer scored 6 wins and three draws,(after winning only one game in the whole first half!)and pretty much proved that he,and not Larsen,was the best player outside of the USSR> I wonder what Fischer was proving in the first half of the tournament.> >That he was going to play to win no matter what. |
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| Nov-28-14 | | Everett: <That he was going to play to win no matter what.> Perhaps that is part of the reason why he lost his mind: No pacing or balance. |
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| Jan-09-15 | | zydeco: A complete massacre. This game feels like Steinitz vs Mongredien, 1863 or one of these old games where one player does something utterly irrelevant on the queenside while his opponent builds up a massive kingside attack. Ivkov's (characteristically melodramatic) note to move 17: "Black has made many errors, and this could not pass unpunished against Fischer. A horrible storm is brewing over the residence of the black monarch. Defenses are dropping away from the black fortress, as if a tornado is passing over." Ivkov's note at the end of the game: "A fast victory for the American champion, and, for me, the weakest game in a long period of time." |
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Jul-02-15
 | | fredthebear: What about a simple Lollie's Mate theme? Instead of exchanging, push 21.f6 threatening mate and the Black knight must give himself up for two pawns with 21...Nxf6 22.exNf6 (threatening mate again) 22...Qxf6 23.Bg5 forcing the Black queen to move, perhaps Qf2. Now 24.BxRa8 RxBa8 wins more material. Then 25.Rf1 w/a gain of time on a possible Qf2. Thereafter Rxf7 sac allows Qxh7+, but simpler is the supported 26.Bf6 block and mate follows. That being the case, 23...Qf2 is out so she attempts to exchange queens with 23...Qg7 (or hide w/23...Qg8) but that leaves White up a whole rook. 21.f6 is not as pretty as this game finish but it is simple and effective w/fewer variables. |
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Jul-02-15
 | | beatgiant: <fredthebear>
What happens on 21. f6 Bf8? |
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| Oct-16-15 | | PugnaciousPawn: Fischer confuses his opponent with 3. d3. He takes Ivkov off course from the outset. |
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| Oct-17-15 | | TheFocus: "So, I have to play as Black. Certainly he will play 1.e4. But I play the Sicilian pretty good. I should get no worse than a draw." Two months later.
"What?? Oh, crud. 3.d3? ... 3.d3?? Uh... Ow."
That is the cheery sound of an ego breaking. |
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Aug-27-24
 | | Knighthawkmiller: After white 25.Bg5 (instead of game Nf6+, aka NB6+) computer shows +9.06 (27 ply) 25...Bf8 26.Bf6+ Nxf6 27.Qxf6+ Bg7 28.Qh4 Nb7 29.Bxh7 Bh6 30.Be4 Nc5 ... The game move 25.Nf6 provides a substantial, but lesser adavantage where there follows +5.30 (26 ply) 25...Nxf6 26.exf6 Nb7 27.Bg5 Qf7 28.Qg7+ Qxg7. What did Fischer see that the computers do not? As the game concluded, Ivkov had some traps that may not have been possible with 25.Bg5. Attribute the move selection to possible tournament stress or chess "snow blindness". |
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| Aug-28-24 | | FM David H. Levin: <Knighthawkmiller: After white 25.Bg5 (instead of game Nf6+, aka NB6+) computer shows +9.06 (27 ply) 25...Bf8 26.Bf6+ Nxf6 27.Qxf6+ Bg7 28.Qh4 Nb7 29.Bxh7 Bh6 30.Be4 Nc5 ... The game move 25.Nf6 provides a substantial, but lesser adavantage where there follows +5.30 (26 ply) 25...Nxf6 26.exf6 Nb7 27.Bg5 Qf7 28.Qg7+ Qxg7. What did Fischer see that the computers do not? As the game concluded, Ivkov had some traps that may not have been possible with 25.Bg5. Attribute the move selection to possible tournament stress or chess "snow blindness".> The choice between moves having evaluations of +9 and +5, respectively, might affect the chance of winning if the player frequently blunders. For me, +2 in a stable middlegame position should be more than enough to ensure victory. Hence, having realized that 25.Nf6 would yield an easily won position, Fischer didn't really need to look for something "even better." |
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Mar-29-25
 | | GrahamClayton: <zydeco>
"or one of these old games where one player does something utterly irrelevant on the queenside while his opponent builds up a massive kingside attack"In the <Golden Treasury of Chess>, IA Horowitz calls Ivkov's queen-side play 'innocuous'. |
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