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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 13 OF 23 ·
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| Apr-08-10 | | Boomie: <HeMateMe: This is why...> Did your post get truncated? You gave a Yaz quote, which I think is brilliant BTW, without explaining your "Why". |
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Apr-08-10
 | | keypusher: <Boomer> <HeMateMe> One problem I see with Seirawan's suggestion is that if intelligent life has evolved at different times all over the universe, you would expect some manifestations to be at a stage like ours, i.e. capable of emitting detectable radio emissions but not capable of "virtual" life. I guess Seirawan would reply that our stage is a very short one. We've only had radio 100 years, and virtual life may not be that far off. Not sure that is a satisfactory answer though. |
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Apr-08-10
 | | HeMateMe: all in fun...but really, wouldn't a civilization(s) intelligent enough to create a world of avatars and space travel make some sort of voluntary contact with a less involved, sentient species, such as earthlings? Would there not be some sort of effort to help us prevent a techno war, increase our knowledge of medicine, food production, safe drinking water, etc? I don't think such communications would be limited to slow, space communications--such an advanced race could make direct contact,face to face. There's nothing 'brilliant' about aping the vison of the directors/script writers of the movies "Surrogates" and "Avatar". |
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Apr-08-10
| | keypusher: <HeMateMe> Who knows what they would want to do with us? They might consider us a form of entertainment. An intergalatic vaudeville act. Maybe they are already in contact and our wars are their video games. More seriously, I think the problems of interstellar travel might be insoluble even for an advanced civilization. Or they might be viewed as not worth solving. If you're living virtually, why travel at all? |
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| Apr-08-10 | | Boomie: Hi, guys.
Any speculation about aliens has about an equal chance of being right I think. Yaz's tongue-in-cheek response is at least creative. There are huge technical problems with intercepting radio signals. We're pretty sure there are no radio emitting civilizations within about 50 light years. Beyond that the signals get weak to detect. You would need some alien scientist pouring huge amounts of energy into a transmitter aimed directly at the Earth to have any chance of detecting such a signal. This is another case of absence of evidence not being evidence of absence. The initial optimism about aliens based on Drake's formula has been reduced to skepticism. There are many factors required which Drake didn't consider. For example, you need a planet which has metals close enough to the surface to be mined. Turns out that's pretty rare. I'm sure there are many other factors which have not been considered that further lower the chances. Fermi's objection assumes that an alien race would have interstellar travel. The technical hurdles to that are so daunting that it is doubtful any civilization would accomplish it. New propulsion systems and artificial gravity seem to be minimum requirements. Even with all the pieces in place, we don't know if human bodies can withstand long periods in space. Travelling at light speed takes 4 years to get to the nearest star. And nobody is going to travel anywhere near light speed. In short, the aliens aren't here because they can't get here. And we will never be able to go there. |
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| Apr-08-10 | | amadeus: <Even with all the pieces in place, we don't know if human bodies can withstand long periods in space.> That's why they are going to use robots. Actually, aliens will most probably be robots -- and therefore immortal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqts... :) |
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| Apr-08-10 | | Everett: Speed of light? What about wormholes? Thought these were theoretically possible. |
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| Apr-08-10 | | Boomie: <Everett: Speed of light? What about wormholes? Thought these were theoretically possible.> So are strings but that doesn't make it science...heh. Let's say we find a wormhole. Would you enter it not knowing where it's going or if you could come back? Assuming you're not crushed like a bug? Let's find a wormhole first and then worry about what to do with it. |
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| Apr-08-10 | | Boomie: <amadeus: <Even with all the pieces in place, we don't know if human bodies can withstand long periods in space.>
That's why they are going to use robots. Actually, aliens will most probably be robots -- and therefore immortal> Hmmm. Perpetual motion machines. Didn't Newton have something to say about that? But no matter what kind of robot we may have, getting it to the nearest star is not practical. Plus what would be the payback once it got there? For the expenditure of the GNP of the world for one year, we would learn in 50 years or so that alien planets have rocks and atmospheres. |
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Apr-08-10
| | HeMateMe: science/technology expands at an accelerating pace. There has been more advancement in the last 100 years than in the past 2000 years combined. I think thats the key. The problems we think have limits may well be solved in 100 years by science and materials that can't even be imagined today. In 100 years, that orbiting International Space Station, a modern marvel, to be sure, will be no more than a galactic bus stop. Wish I would be here to see it. |
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Apr-08-10
 | | Ron: The Doomsday argument was developed by some academics, which concluded that there is a 95% chance that the human race will go extinct around 9000 years from now.
Like anything else, this argument is disputed.
I wonder, if the argument is valid for the human race, if it is applicable to non human races. This could explain 'Fermi's Paradox': Advanced civilzations go extinct.
Here is the wikipeida article on The Doomsday Argument:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsd... |
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| Apr-09-10 | | Everett: Races or civilizations? Since humans have supposedly evolved from the most basic and simple of organisms, when, technically, does our "race" begin? On the other end, are we "extinct" if we evolve too greatly to be recognized as "humans?" |
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Apr-09-10
| | HeMateMe: I'll give any amoeba Knight odds. |
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| Apr-09-10 | | MaxxLange: <Ron> The Doomsday argument is fascinating. It's a shame that the lede of the Wikipedia article is so technical; I don't think it gives a clear summary of the argument. It does mention the philosopher John Leslie (http://www.uoguelph.ca/philosophy/p...), a fascinating thinker. He seems to be interested in the metaphysics of probability theory in a very searching and original manner. I notice, btw, that he lists, as a hobby, a chess variant called "Hostage Chess" |
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| Apr-09-10 | | Everett: Hostage chess? |
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| Apr-14-10 | | ForeverYoung: Getting back to chess, there are some new Seirawan games posted by John Donaldson at the Northwest Chess site. Seems he has been playing in Holland and doing well too! |
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| Apr-16-10 | | Everett: That's great! Could you share the direct link? |
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Apr-16-10
 | | chancho: <Everett> http://www.nwchess.com/articles/eve... |
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| May-16-10 | | Marmot PFL: <science/technology expands at an accelerating pace. There has been more advancement in the last 100 years than in the past 2000 years combined. I think thats the key. The problems we think have limits may well be solved in 100 years by science and materials that can't even be imagined today. In 100 years, that orbiting International Space Station, a modern marvel, to be sure, will be no more than a galactic bus stop. Wish I would be here to see it.> Why won't you be here? If science can do all these marvelous things than doubling human life span should be a piece of cake... As for space travel, I saw 2001 as a kid and really thought we would have bases on the moon, ships to Mars etc by now but we aren't even close. Without the cold war space race the incentive just dried up. |
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| Jun-07-10 | | Everett: New Seirawan book out.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n... |
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Jun-07-10
| | HeMateMe: I thought Yaz was distancing himself from chess, but I bet the new book is very good. Nice review, 5 stars, on Amazon. Love the story about cheating Karpov at Bridge! |
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| Jun-07-10 | | Everett: <hemateme>
He does have his seirawanchess.com idea, and has been playing in the Dutch Team Championships each year. |
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| Jun-07-10 | | MaxxLange: One of the 2 GMs who have sent me email. A perfect gentleman - I was nobody, a C player helping a master with no PC or Internet, communicate with Yaz, in the ' mid 90's. He always addressed me very respectfully and politely in our communications. |
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| Jun-08-10 | | SpiritedReposte: Wow Yasser and Benicio Del Toro are twins. |
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Jun-08-10
| | chancho: I don't see the resemblance:
http://www.schellstudio.com/blog/wp... j/k |
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