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Nov-06-21 | | Olavi: Going by chessmetrics, others in that range at 18 have been Spassky, Fischer, Ivanchuk and Kamsky. In the official elo list Kamsky was eigth at 16 and after temporarily dropping down seventh at 18. Ivanchuk didn't make it into the top ten until 19, but elo reacts slowly. |
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Nov-06-21
 | | keypusher: <Cassianist> <Olavi> On chessbomb someone posted a link to an age-matched Elo graph for Firouzja and Carlsen. They tracked very closely. I think you can create such a graph on the FIDE Elo website, but I don't know how. |
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Nov-07-21 | | metatron2: <keypusher: I think you can create such a graph on the FIDE Elo website, but I don't know how.> You can do it by entering into the a player's profile page and then clicking "Compare this player with others" (currently under "New" section). And you can get something like this there:
https://ratings.fide.com/compare_pl... However, fide site doesn't support comparing by age, but 2700chess.com does support it: Click the first player's rating graph, and you can then add another player there (and more than 2 players if you are premium).
Then you chose "Filter by age" and set the age range you want to compare. For example:
https://2700chess.com/charts/carlse... |
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Nov-07-21 | | fisayo123: Congrats to Firouzja on qualifying for the Candidates Tournament 2022 at only 18! Impressive! He'll be one of the youngest players to do so and the youngest to do so in this modern qualification format which is harder than the means the 2 other younger Candidates of the past used to qualify. And I'm still proud of having the 1st post on this page seeing potential from a while away! |
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Nov-07-21 | | EdwinKorir: Into the candidates. |
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Nov-07-21 | | thebully99: Firouzja should be considered one of the favorites to win 2022, not an underdog like Duda and Radjabov. |
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Nov-08-21 | | CCastillo: Nepomnatchi better watch out. |
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Nov-08-21 | | syracrophy: <thebully99> Firouzja has achieved an amazing peak by reaching Candidates at 18. Not sure if he’s the youngest. But comparing him to Duda or Radjabov one has to be clear that he’s the underdog now – Duda is a more mature player than him, Radjabov is a veteran whose only liability would be his lack of motivation as he’s 30 now. Alireza would need at least another 8 years of mature career to be a serious contender to the title. The opposition on Candidates is big and the last challengers of Carlsen have been more than 25 years old at least. Lots of heavyweight experience is still ahead. |
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Nov-08-21 | | ndg2: Firouzja absolutely belongs into the candidates. Is he the favorite? No, there will be heavyweights like Karjakin, Nepo/Carlsen, Caruana and not solid but not stellar 2650+ players like in the Grand Swiss. Maybe the field will be joined by the likes of Giri and or Grischuk. Firo certainly is better than Duda or Radjabov now. But he still can lose against the absolute top, as his game against Caruana in the Grand Swiss has shown. |
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Nov-08-21
 | | Troller: <Alireza would need at least another 8 years of mature career to be a serious contender to the title.> While I agree that Firouzja is probably too inexperienced to go all the way in the next Candidates, 8 more years is exaggerated; Kasparov was 21 when he qualified for a title match, Tal was 22, Karpov was 23. The fact that Karjakin and Caruana were 25 and 24 respectively does not mean Firouzja will necessarily have to wait in my opinion. But in upcoming Candidates he will face opponent-specific preparation on a level he has never experienced before, and this can be tough to cope with. While he has a decent shot at winning (much better than players like Wang Hao or Alekseenko), I would not consider him favourite. Really a most welcome fresh blow to have Alireza there. The Carlsen generation have had a strong grip on top chess for quite some years now, as emerging talents like Wei Yi, Artemiev, Duda, Xiong have not been able so far to assert themselves in this regard - Duda the possible exception after his splendid performance in the World Cup of course. |
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Nov-08-21 | | Albertan: Firouzja becomes third youngest world title candidate after Carlsen and Fischer: https://www.ft.com/content/ef69a5ba... |
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Nov-09-21 | | syracrophy: <Troller> The upcoming Candidates won’t be as strong as previous editions, so he may have a serious shot. Duda and him are the underdogs this time and Alireza could give a surprise. What I’m saying is that he still needs a big time of achieving results to be a serious challenger. His huge talent and performance made him win his spot at Candidates by winning this massive tournament but it’s a lot different than making it to Candidates by winning a serie of strong tournaments, achieving the experience, a mature gladiator strength. Carlsen and Kasparov became challengers after being top at super-elite tournaments at so a young age. This superstar is still away from that length. |
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Nov-09-21
 | | harrylime: this guy is the future . |
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Nov-09-21
 | | 0ZeR0: <Troller>
Yes, I think even if Firouzja doesn't prevail in the next Candidates, he could very well do so in the one after, assuming he keeps the same meteoric trajectory. Which would put him about on track with the players you mentioned. |
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Nov-09-21
 | | harrylime: this guy is the future |
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Nov-10-21 | | Kurakotsaba: Can we take a peek at the Crystal Ball.
Did Cosa Nostradamus whispered something? |
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Nov-10-21
 | | alexmagnus: < Kasparov was 21 when he qualified for a title match, Tal was 22, Karpov was 23.> And of course Carlsen himself, 22. |
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Nov-10-21
 | | alexmagnus: <Ponomariov was #6 on the July 2002 list--a nice reminder that being this high is not a guarantee of anything.> I think wining that FIDE WC was no good for his career. it basically demotivated him, and for a long time not only his ranking but even his rating on the July 2002 list (2743) was his peak. He surpassed it only in September 2010 (2749), eventually reaching his absolute peak of 2764 in September 2011. He remained a force in World Cups all the way till 2011 though, reaching at least the semifinal in every event but 2007 (2005 final, 2007 quarterfinal, 2009 final 2011 semifinal). He is the prime example that KO is not as much about luck as many think - but also that this format requires somewhat different skills than round robin tournaments (which doesn't mean both can't be strong, see Karjakin). Karjakin, Ding and MVL are other notable KO players. Which is, by the way, why I like the present World Championship cycle. You have all formats there: KO (World Cup, final stage of Grand Prix), round robin (preliminary stage of Grand Prix, Candidates), Swiss (Grand Swiss), and match (WC match). You can only become world champion if you show yourself versatile enough to do well in all formats. |
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Nov-10-21 | | fisayo123: <<Ponomariov was #6 on the July 2002 list--a nice reminder that being this high is not a guarantee of anything.> Its much harder to climb to the top 10 of the FIDE rating list now as a young player than it was 20 years ago. There's a reason there are hardly any teenagers in the top 50 today. With the rise of chess in Asian countries, the grandmaster Open tournament scene is much more competitive to overcome. Which makes Firouzja's rise all the more impressive. Firouzja's tournament is already more impressive than anything Ponomariov did in a swiss or round robin format at a similar age and in fact almost rivals Ponomariov's entire career supertournament record after 6 attempts (for Firouzja). So, Firouzja has played 6 major tournaments so far : (1) TATA Steel 2020 - at age 16, was leading his first ever supertournament in an event featuring Carlsen, Anand, Caruana as late as round 9 only to falter at the end. (2) Prague Masters 2020- Won it
(3) Norway chess 2020 2nd place behind #1 Carlsen and ahead of #2 Caruana (4) TATA Steel 2021 Tied 3rd. Could have tied for 1st if not for some arbiter weirdness.
His 'worst' performance since his 1st supertournament a year earlier (5) Norway Chess 2021 2nd place. Behind #1 Carlsen and ahead of #2 Caruana (6) Grand Swiss 2021 won it. Ahead of #2 Caruana That's sustained. I don't believe any young player has shown these results since Carlsen and before that, GK himself. Kramnik did not show such sustained results until he was 19. Now does that mean that Firouzja is the next Kasparov or Carlsen? You can't actually have a next Kasparov, Carlsen, Karpov or Fischer until the player in question actually DOES it. But the comparisons to Wei Yi first, now Ponomariov need to stop. I wonder who else would be dug up to compare. Why even compare? |
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Nov-12-21 | | metatron2: Good post <fisayo123>. <fisayo123: With the rise of chess in Asian countries, the grandmaster Open tournament scene is much more competitive to overcome. Which makes Firouzja's rise all the more impressive> Indeed, I'll also add that with the technology advances in chess, the competition raised even further. Today, any 2500 rated player and above, can come up with deep engine based preps and cause serious problems to the strongest players. <fisayo123: Now does that mean that Firouzja is the next Kasparov or Carlsen? You can't actually have a next Kasparov, Carlsen, Karpov or Fischer until the player in question actually DOES it.> True, but as for Firouzja, it is obvious that the one-in-a-generation-talent is there, and the motivation to improve in chess and succeed is there as well. There one thing that is unclear to me about him though: Does he have a well supporting team around him, that help him focus on the things that matter most? I think that he had good training environment in Iran, but its unclear to me how he works since he left there. It took him 2 years just to decide which country to represent, so I don't know. Carlsen always had the support of his father, and trainers and sponsors that he grouped around him. Kasparov had an excellent soviet team around him, and so did Karpov. Fischer is the only one who did most of his work alone. But I don't know if we will ever see another Fischer. Also those were were different times. I think that today, it is important for a future WC to have a good supporting team around you. A team that will also make sure that he will have access to the best technology (note that even Aronian left Armenia mainly because they didn't give him access to super-computer). |
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Nov-12-21 | | nok: <You can only become world champion if you show yourself versatile enough to do well in all formats.> Except for the title holder, who has to show f-ckall. |
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Nov-12-21 | | rogge: <nok: <You can only become world champion if you show yourself versatile enough to do well in all formats.>
Except for the title holder, who has to show f-ckall.> Lol. Carlsen is the reighning world champion in all 3 formats :) |
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Nov-12-21 | | nok: <alex> mentioned four. <You have all formats there: KO (World Cup, final stage of Grand Prix), round robin (preliminary stage of Grand Prix, Candidates), Swiss (Grand Swiss), and match (WC match). You can only become world champion if you show yourself versatile enough to do well in all formats.> |
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Nov-12-21 | | nazmullincoln: #4 again. Alireza just beat Australian GM kragguss |
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Nov-13-21 | | Caissanist: <Its much harder to climb to the top 10 of the FIDE rating list now as a young player than it was 20 years ago. There's a reason there are hardly any teenagers in the top 50 today.> There were three people born 1983 or earlier on the October 2002 top 50, there's two born 2002 or earlier in the current one. Doesn't seem terribly significant. |
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