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| Dec-19-07 | | Strongest Force: Yeah, Riverbeast, i really missed the mother-load that summer. If Poe didn't directly influence what Fishburne said in the movie then it was indirect because i recall that Fishburne used a couple of famous Poe lines; the problem, of course, is that they weren't lines that Livermore used. Anyway, if i was there, i would have kept things real and balanced. ;) |
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Dec-20-07
 | | HeMateMe: Just out of curiosity, I checked to see if waitzkin had any games against Kasparov (Kaspy had given a buy recommendation to Waitzin's book "Attacking Chess"). I didn't think JW would make it into any tournaments that Kasparov was in, but lo and behold, there is a game, a draw! Ah.....but then someone commentates that it was actaulley part of a 58 game simul. Oh well, a brush with greatness....... |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Strongest Force: Yeah, i remember that draw between Josh and Gary. I am almost certain it was reported in the NYTs the next day; Fred was a writer (usually sports) for the paper. Also, Kasparov and the Waitzkins probably remain good friends to this day. Josh was 10 or 11 when he drew that game. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: <Also, Kasparov and the Waitzkins probably remain good friends to this day.> I doubt it. Their mutually beneficial relationship seems to have come to an abrupt end after the publication of Mortal Games. For the unhappy fate of another American prodigy versus Kasparov, see:
Shaked vs Kasparov, 1997 |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: <For the unhappy fate of another American prodigy versus Kasparov> This is another example of people using the 'prodigy' label a bit too easily. Shaked was a talented junior player, as Waitzkin was. Some would argue that he was more talented (or more accomplished), since he became World Junior Champion and a GM. But he was not a child prodigy. Even if he were, it would be no disgrace to get spanked by Kasparov. Garry has beaten real prodigies to death: Nigel Short, for example... |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: I didn't say he was a real prodigy. I said he was an American prodigy. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: No, MichAdams: a true 'American prodigy' would be someone like Morphy or Fischer...both of whom are leagues above anybody your country (it is England, isn't it?) ever produced, and probably ever will. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: But Fischer and Morphy were products of a country that still wanted to play chess. And as America was a product of Britain, in particular, and Europe, in general, I'm vindicated again. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: I love how you Brits claim America as a product of yours, when America accomplishes something great...but then you belittle America and talk about how different the country is, in all other circumstances. America is a product of all immigrants who came to this country, not just Europeans. If talented young American players don't pursue chess as a profession it's because it's too difficult to make a living at the game. Most of them prefer to go to school to pursue a profession: even Kamsky, a WC finalist, decided to take time off to pursue medical and legal studies. I guess he realized that these professions still don't suit him, as chess does at it's highest levels. Morphy and Fischer were products of America, born and raised in this country. The fact that you try to claim them as your own just shows that your country can't produce anybody that great. Do I have to remind you, once again, that the British champion, Staunton, made every excuse not to play Morphy? He knew Paul would have beaten him senseless (especially after he saw what he did to Anderssen), and G-d forbid he should lose to someone from the 'New World', and disprove the notion of 'European superiority'.... You're full of arrogance and ignorance, MichAdams, as usual |
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| Dec-20-07 | | RookFile: <Riverbeast: This is another example of people using the 'prodigy' label a bit too easily. > Absolutely. Bobby Fischer, at the age of 15, was already a stronger player than Waitzkin or Tal Shaked ever became. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: If I looked up prodigy in a dictionary, I wonder if there'd be a picture of Fischer in its place. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Strongest Force: MichAdams, what was there about Mortal Games that make you doubtful about the friendship between Kasparov and the Waitzkins? |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Tomlinsky: <Riverbeast: I love how you Brits claim America as a product of yours, when America accomplishes something great...but then you belittle America and talk about how different the country is, in all other circumstances. > We're only jealous you know. It's pure envy. I mean, we shipped off all our convicts to a beautiful sunny land down under while we get to sit here looking at grey skies and rain pissing down all year long. We press-ganged our own into fighting and colonising for inbred Royals and aristocracy, starved parts of the 'Union' and led people to flock to continents such as your own whose heirs now enjoy a rich and diverse culture while the most interesting culture we now have is probably on a slide of penicillin in a research lab on Dartmoor. The only point in buying property here, if you happen to win the lottery, is so that you can eventually sell it and get the hell out! Be gentle with us. We'll get over it eventually. ;) |
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| Dec-20-07 | | RookFile: Well, somebody said that the American Revolution was really just a bunch of guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Fischer should have lived during that time period. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: <If I looked up prodigy in a dictionary, I wonder if there'd be a picture of Fischer in its place.> Well, Short is considered a 'bona fide chess prodigy' according to his bio. Was he a GM at 15, and a candidate for the world championship at 16? |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: <I love how you Brits claim America as a product of yours, when America accomplishes something great...but then you belittle America and talk about how different the country is, in all other circumstances.> Well, I'm glad that it makes you happy.
<America is a product of all immigrants who came to this country, not just Europeans.> But mainly Europeans. And when one considers such civilised countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, the common denominator is again, Britain, in particular, and Europe, in general. <If talented young American players don't pursue chess as a profession it's because it's too difficult to make a living at the game.> Yes, that's what I said: they don't want to play chess. Hence the need to import more immigrants to take their place. <Morphy and Fischer were products of America, born and raised in this country. The fact that you try to claim them as your own just shows that your country can't produce anybody that great.> I didn't claim them as my own. I claimed America for Europe. <Do I have to remind you, once again, that the British champion, Staunton, made every excuse not to play Morphy? > A debatable point, to say the least. What was certainly most regrettable was Morphy's decision to run home to Mummy and retire in a blue funk. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: MichAdams, your points have reached such a level of arrogance and absurdity I won't even bother to rebut them...I'll let them stand on their own, as a testament to the genius that is MichAdams |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: < MichAdams, what was there about Mortal Games that make you doubtful about the friendship between Kasparov and the Waitzkins?> To be honest, I can't quite remember how I came to form that impression, though I understand that Kasparov wasn't entirely happy with his portrayal in Mortal Games, even though, to the neutral observer, it verges on the hagiographic. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Shams: <We're only jealous you know. It's pure envy. I mean, we shipped off all our convicts to a beautiful sunny land down under while we get to sit here looking at grey skies and rain pissing down all year long.> The majority of those convicts were guilty of nothing more than stealing food. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Shams: I'm never coming to this page again, unless they get a different photo for JW. Sooooo obnoxious. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | MichAdams: Europe 1 - 0 America
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| Dec-20-07 | | Tomlinsky: <Shams: The majority of those convicts were guilty of nothing more than stealing food.> Aye, I'm well aware of the history. It wasn't a serious comment, if that wasn't obvious, meant to spark off political debate. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Riverbeast: What the heck, MichAdams, I will rebut...because if there's one thing I can't take, it's the arrogance of the British... If America is YOUR product, then why does Britain, OUR little lap dogs, do everything that we do in foreign policy, like good little byotches...you know, those poodles in delicate little sweaters? You all talk of the 'special relationship' between America and Britain? Well, that's what the special relationship looks like, on this 'side of the pond'...Keep licking your daddy's boots, England...Because your empire is no more, we all know you desperately need to hang on to our coattails... so you can pretend that you're still relevant. We OWN you, England. You know it and we know it.
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| Dec-20-07 | | Shams: <Tomlinsky> no, I caught your tone and was just being lazy-- I didn't know myself until a couple months ago and just found it interesting. The popular imagination holds that OZ was colonized by violent thugs, and I believed that too. I have no bone to pick here. And maybe it's just because I'm from Seattle, but I actually prefer grey, wet and dreary to the sun-baked antipodes. |
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| Dec-20-07 | | Tomlinsky: <Shams> It's all good. My irony meter twitched a little, sometimes it doesn't seem to travel (is that being arrogant?) :) <Riverbeast> Merry stereotypes and happy generalisations to you my good fellow! |
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