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Jan-12-06
 | | keypusher: Since Alekhine's is the opening of the day here are a couple of recent games in the "Ljubojevic line" -- both losses, alas. These are from the QueenAlice site. In the first game I am the victim of cg.com's very own <The Alchemist>, an awfully strong player. 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. c4 Nb6 5. f4 dxe5 6. fxe5 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Nc3 exd5 9. cxd5 c4 10. Nf3 Bb4 11. Bxc4 Bxc3+ 12. bxc3 Nxc4 13. Qa4+ Nd7 14. Qxc4 Nb6 15. Qb5+ Qd7 16. Qxd7+ Bxd7 17. d6 Rc8 18. Bd2 O-O 19. Rb1 f6 20. O-O Rc5 21. Be3 Rxc3 22. Bxb6 axb6 23. Rxb6 Bc8 24. exf6 Rxf6 25. Rd1 1-0 Here's another defeat at the hands of an Icelander who goes by <JimMorrison> at Queen Alice. (He isn't Bobby Fischer, unfortunately). 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. c4 Nb6 5. f4 dxe5 6. fxe5 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Nc3 exd5 9. cxd5 c4 10. Nf3 Bb4 11. Bxc4 Bxc3+ 12. bxc3 Nxc4 13. Qa4+ Nd7 14. Qxc4 Nb6 15. Qb5+ Qd7 16. Qxd7+ Bxd7 17. d6 Rc8 18. Bd2 Nc4 19. Bf4 Nb2 20. Bd2 Nd3+ 21. Ke2 Bb5 22. Ke3 O-O 23. Rab1 Ba6 24. c4 Nc5 25. Rhc1 f6 26. Bb4 fxe5 27. d7 Nxd7 28. Bxf8 Kxf8 29. Rd1 Ke7 30. Rd5 Bxc4 31. Ra5 Ba6 32. Nxe5 Nxe5 33. Rxe5+ Kf6 34. Re4 Rc2 35. Rf4+ Ke6 36. Rf2 Rc3+ 37. Kf4 b6 38. Re1+ Kd7 39. Rd2+ Kc8 40. Re8+ Kb7 41. Re7+ Rc7 42. Rdd7 1-0 |
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| Jan-12-06 | | AgentRgent: <keypusher> Re: Your game with TheAlchemist After a (admittedly quick) look, I think you were ok until 20...Rc5. I think a better continuation might be: 20...fxe5 (don't let connected center pawns survive) 21. Nxe5 Rxf1+ 22. Rxf1 Rc5 23. Nxd7 Nxd7 (The Knight is an excellent blockading piece, especially posted on a light square when facing a Dark sq. bishop). And I think you have good chances to draw the endgame. |
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Jan-13-06
| | keypusher: Thanks, <AgentRgent>, I will take a look at this at home. <The Alchemist> didn't like 20...Rc5 either. |
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| Feb-13-06 | | pezzonovante: 6...c5 seems to be definitely refuted, but 6...Cc6 or 6...Af5 is perfectly OK for black I think |
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| Feb-13-06 | | refutor: <pezzonovante> i disagree 7. ...g6 is a better try than 7. ...e6 |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: I had seen a wonderfull game played by Tal. He played the White side of the Alekhine and he just outplayed his opponent. During analysing that game, I liked the possible sacrifice which could arise, but Tal did play something else. The Alekhine Defense, Modern Variation:
1.e4 Nf6
2.e5 Nd5
3.d4 d6
4.Nf3 dxe5
5.Nxe5 Nd7?!(this move is played reguraly)
6.Nxf7!? Kxf7
I would like to discuss this variation. |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <ALL> Which side do you favour and why? |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: I think it's quite clear that White's next move will be Qh5+ (according to Fritz +0,91) |
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| Feb-13-06 | | refutor: black is clearly better. just ask agentrgent ;) the best white has is perpetual...what does he have after 7.Qh5+ Ke6 if 8.c4 N5f6 9.d5+ Kd6 and even though his king is in a tough spot, a piece is a piece |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <refutor> Why do you think Black is clearly better? Ofcourse you a piece is a piece but White has surely the edge. After Qf7 the game is getting complicated and both sides should play precisely! |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Mating Net: <Bobak Zahmat> After 10.Qf7, White loses 3 out of 4 games in the database. Opening Explorer Black has all of his pieces and just needs to weather the storm for a few moves. A forced mate just isn't in the cards. |
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| Feb-13-06 | | pezzonovante: 5...Cd7 is out of question, I think. Supposing White doesn't takes the perpetual, that line is very dangerous for Black in practical play. There's no need the black king to be a Mark Roberts as early as move 6 :-) |
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Feb-13-06
| | keypusher: <6...c5 seems to be definitely refuted> What's the refutation? I don't think my own losses count. :-) |
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Feb-13-06
| | keypusher: <5...Cd7 is out of question, I think. Supposing White doesn't takes the perpetual, that line is very dangerous for Black in practical play.> If the Opening Explorer is to be believed, it's even more dangerous for White! |
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| Feb-13-06 | | AgentRgent: <pezzonovante: 5...Cd7 is out of question, I think. Supposing White doesn't takes the perpetual, that line is very dangerous for Black in practical play.> I disagree. I play 5...Nd7 and after 6. Nxf7 it is Black who has the advantage. White's best is to take the perpetual, else a prepared Black player will consolidate and win! |
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| Feb-13-06 | | Mating Net: Perhaps the strongest argument that can be made AGAINST the sac 6.Nx7 is that Tal, of all people, DIDN'T make the sac against Larsen after Larsen played 5...Nd7 Tal vs Larsen, 1965
If Tal wasn't convinced a win could be found, I doubt mere mortals could find one. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <Mating Net> Could you please confirm which four games are mentioned in the database of Opening Explorer. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <pezzonovante><keypusher><AgentRgent> What do you mean by <5 ... Cd7?> |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <AgemtRgent> My purpose of this discussion is to understand why White should sacrifice and if he does whether he can turn this into a win. Fritz gives +1.05 after the sacrifice. So White has still the edge. But perhaps it isn't possible to turn this into a full point. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <Mating Net> You are quite right to mention that if Tal hasn't use the sac, he could not found a winning variation, but perhaps he had not prepared himself for this variation heavily. Personally I like the move 6.Nxf7!? more than the normal 6.Bc4. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | pezzonovante: When Larsen played 5...Nd7, it was a novelty, it's quite possible Tal feared some kind of homecooking. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | pezzonovante: Strong players (+2500) are currently playing 5...c6 in that position, not 5...Nd7 (and not to avoid perpetual, I guess). |
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Feb-14-06
| | keypusher: Chessbase has 488 games after 5...Nd7, so obviously its coverage is much more thorough than <cg.com>. I didn't try to count the results. <pezzonovante>, assuming this <Strong players (+2500) are currently playing 5...c6 in that position, not 5...Nd7> is true, it's hardly surprising that Black would avoid a variation in which his opponent can force a draw, but also has the option of trying to win, especially when perfectly playable alternatives (5...g6 appears to be more popular than either 5...c6 or 5...Nd7) exist. |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <pezzonovante: When Larsen played 5...Nd7, it was a novelty, it's quite possible Tal feared some kind of homecooking.> Do you mean the move Nd7 wasn't played before in a game between top GM's? |
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| Feb-14-06 | | Bobak Zahmat: <keypusher> If White plays perfect, perhaps he can convert the game in a win, but if you play against a stronger opponent and are prepared well, I certaintly take Nd7 as an option. |
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