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Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-18-09 | | johnlspouge: < <Once> wrote: [snip] That sort of logic would work for ordinary players, but this is Anand, with white, playing a player graded well below him. [snip] Playing Bxe6 is a very committal move. White has to prove an advantage or bail out into a perpetual, without really having a second chance to win the game. [snip] > I agree: I think Anand knows something about the puzzle position that we do not ;>) |
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| Jan-18-09 | | mkrk17: Actually, quite simple if you could see 31.h3. Nice one from Vishy. |
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| Jan-19-09 | | cyruslaihy: I don't think the suggestion "play it coz its feels good although its unclear" is always true.
I did that in an important tournament game of mine. attempted a centre break that seem to give me a good position, but theres so many options that i didn't manage to calculate all, so i just told myself "youre gonna regret not playing it if you put this into the computer tonight and found you were right" so i played it and turns out i overlooked a counter strike at my king, and barely managed to draw coz my opponent overlooked a mate in 6.
i mean, there really isn't a necessity to gamble everytime you have the chance, sometimes you just need to learn to take the safe way too! |
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Jan-19-09
 | | Once: <Patriot> Nice quote from Dab Heisman (of Novice Nook fame), but I think we need to agree to disagree on this position. A draw with white against lower graded opposition would be a poor result for Anand. Unless he is playing blitz or very short of time, I would expect him to spend a fair bit of time on this move. I'm with <johnlspouge> on this one. It is not as easy as it looks to find and calculate all the follow-ups, even if the first couple of moves are fairly easy to spot. |
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Jan-17-17
 | | plang: Game 2 of their 4th round match in the World Championship tournament; this win clinched the match 1.5-0.5 for Anand who went on to defeat Khalifman, Adams and Shirov to win the tournament. 19 Nd3? had been played by Anand in a 1994 blindfold game against Karpov; 19 Nd4 was his improvement. 19..Nb4 could have been answered with 20 Nxf7..Bxg3 21 Nxd8..Rxd8 22 Nxe6..Rxd1 23 Rxd1..Qe5 24 Qxe5..Bxe5 25 c5..bxc 26 Rd8+..Kf7 27 Nxc5+..Kg6 28 Nxa6..Nxa6 29 Ra8 with a clear edge for White. Perhaps 20..Nf4 or 20..Ne7 should have been considered as the knight never got back into play after 20..Nb4. With 23..Rc8? Macieja clearly underestimated the danger. 34..Qc2? lost at once; had the stronger 34..Rf6 been played Anand offered the following line: 35 Rd8+..Rf8 36 Rxf8+..Qxf8 37 Qe5+..Qg7 38 Qb8+..Kh7 39 Qxb6. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Walter Glattke: A) 24.Bxe6 fxe6 25.Bxf6 gxf6 26.Qxe6+ Kg7 27.Rd7+ Kg6 28.g4 Qc1+ 29.Kg2 Qf4 30.Qf7+ Kg6 31.Qh5# B) 24.Bxe6 Re8 -+ C) 24.Bxf6 gxf6 25.Bxe6 Re8 26.Qg4+ Qg5 27.Bd7 Qxg4 28.Bxg4 +- |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Refused: 24.Bxf6 gxf6 25.Bxe6 should put an end to it.
a.) 25...fxe6 26.Qxe6+ Kf8 (h8) and now all the pawns on the king side will drop, and white is still hunting for the king with Q+R. Ofc, White will have to create some air with h3 at some point. But White is just better in any case after 27.Qxf6+ Kg8 28.Qg6+ Kf8 (h8) 29.Qxh6+ a1) 25...fxe6 26.Qxe6+ Kg7 27.Rd7+ Kg6 28.Qf7+ Kg5 (f5) 29.Rd5+ +- b) 25...Re8 26.Qg4+ is just sad. Black's king position is in tatters and he is also a pawn down. And after something like 26.Bf5 Black's king again looks like he is living on borrowed time.Note. If white starts with 24.Bxe6 Re8 looks like a much better defensive resource, as white doesn't have Qg4+ here.. |
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Mar-06-21
 | | hoodrobin: Anand is a great chess player. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Brenin: 24 Bxf6 gxf6 25 Bxe6 is not hard to see, but why didn't Black play 25 ... Re8 26 Qg4+ Qg5? If 27 Qxg5 then Black's K-side pawns are straightened out, and he is down by only a doubled Q-side pawn. Better for White is 27 h4 Qxg4 28 Bxg4, e.g. 28 ... Re4 29 f3 retains the pawn. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | AlicesKnight: I saw the first 4-5 moves but was not sure it could be pressed home .... I was wrong. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | awfulhangover: Easy solution, but was afraid I was wrong coz 25.-Re8 was hard to calculate. And why black did not try it? |
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| Mar-06-21 | | thegoodanarchist: About eight years after this game was played, Anand became World Chess Champion. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Viking707: Excuse me if this has already been mentioned, but wouldn't 24: Bd6 winning the black Queen have been more of a winning move (inspiring immediate resignation) than what Anand chose? |
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Mar-06-21
 | | chancho: 24.Bd6 Qf5. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Brenin: <Viking707>: 24 Bd6 Qf5 saves the Q, though after 25 Bxb4 axb4 Black's Q-side pawns are vulnerable. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Viking707: chanco: You are right. It would not have won the Q, but as Brenin pointed out, it would have produced a strong position for the win. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Only a Pawn: So many pawns to play with!!! |
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Mar-06-21
 | | chrisowen: Mup evict moots Bxf6 had as cog evict magis it boot evict toggle mup wicked its docks evict oak woods finish vic baroque brags tumps hup guppy jezebel its knight vasts chastity froggy lives gladly pow its mazey vasts evict Rc8 got aid ask likes Nd5 ghoul honor abridge likes gadfly fluffer 2 3 huffle goodness evict fluffer it wish it ace rot totup abracadabra vilify guv mob cad jet aeons dab Bxf6 choose; |
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| Mar-06-21 | | RandomVisitor: Stockfish points out that the gameplay could have taken other paths, but likely with the same end result:
click for larger viewStockfish_21022619_x64_modern:
<48/66 31:11 +5.92 24.Bd4 Qc7 25.Bxf6 gxf6 26.Bxe6> Rd8 27.Rxd8+ Qxd8 28.Bc4 Qc7 29.Qg4+ Kf8 30.Qd4 Nc2 31.Qe4 Nb4 32.h3 Kg7 33.Qg4+ Kh7 34.g3 Qe7 <48/71 31:11 +4.93 24.Bxf6 gxf6 25.Bxe6 Re8> 26.Qg4+ Qg5 27.h4 Qxg4 28.Bxg4 Re5 29.Rd6 f5 30.Bh5 f4 31.Bg4 Kg7 32.Kh2 h5 33.Bf3 Re6 34.Rd4 Rf6 |
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| Mar-06-21 | | mel gibson: I thought 24 B-d6
but that was not as good as what Stockfish 13 picked which was:24. B-d4
(24. Bd4
(♗e5-d4 ♕c5-c7 ♗d4xf6 g7xf6 ♗b3xe6 f7xe6 ♕e2xe6+ ♔g8-h8 ♕e6xf6+ ♕c7-g7
♕f6xb6 ♔h8-h7 h2-h3 ♖c8-g8 g2-g3 ♕g7-e5 ♖d1-d7+ ♖g8-g7 ♖d7xg7+ ♔h7xg7
♕b6xa5 ♕e5-e1+ ♔g1-g2 ♕e1-e4+ ♔g2-h2 ♘b4-d3 ♕a5-a7+ ♔g7-f6 ♕a7-e3 ♕e4xe3
f2xe3 ♔f6-e5 b2-b3 ♘d3-c5 g3-g4 ♘c5xb3 ♔h2-g3 ♔e5-d5 ♔g3-h4 ♘b3-c5 a4-a5
♔d5-c4 a5-a6 ♘c5-d7 ♔h4-h5 ♔c4xb5 a6-a7 ♘d7-b6 h3-h4 ♔b5-a6 ♔h5xh6 ♔a6xa7)
+4.75/37 97)
score for White +4.75 depth 37
But forcing Stockfish 13 to play the text move:
24. Bxf6 gxf6
(24. ..
gxf6 (g7xf6 ♗b3xe6 ♖c8-e8 ♕e2-g4+ ♕c5-g5 h2-h4 ♕g5xg4 ♗e6xg4 ♖e8-e4 ♗g4-f3
♖e4-e7 ♖d1-d6 ♖e7-e6 ♖d6-d8+ ♔g8-g7 b2-b3 ♖e6-e1+ ♔g1-h2 f6-f5 ♗f3-h5
♖e1-e4 g2-g3 ♖e4-e6 ♖d8-d7 ♖e6-f6 ♔h2-g2 ♔g7-f8 ♔g2-f3 ♔f8-e8 ♖d7-d2 ♔e8-e7
♔f3-f4 ♖f6-e6 ♔f4xf5 ♖e6-f6+ ♔f5-g4 ♖f6-e6 ♖d2-d4 ♖e6-f6 ♖d4-e4+ ♔e7-f8
♖e4-f4 ♔f8-e7 ♖f4xf6 ♔e7xf6 ♔g4-f4 ♘b4-d3+ ♔f4-e3 ♘d3-c5 ♗h5-d1 ♔f6-e5
f2-f4+ ♔e5-d6 ♗d1-c2) -3.69/42 125)
score for Black -3.69 depth 42
which is still a good move for White. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Refused: <Brenin: 24 Bxf6 gxf6 25 Bxe6 is not hard to see, but why didn't Black play 25 ... Re8 26 Qg4+ Qg5? If 27 Qxg5 then Black's K-side pawns are straightened out, and he is down by only a doubled Q-side pawn. Better for White is 27 h4 Qxg4 28 Bxg4, e.g. 28 ... Re4 29 f3 retains the pawn.> You can never capture on h4 tho.
After something like 29.Bf3 Rxh4 30.Rd6 you will (at least) drop the pawn on b6. All you did was create a worthless majority on K-side in exchange for a monster passer on the q-side. Oh, and on top you have the inferior minor piece. This should really be just a matter of technique. |
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Mar-06-21
 | | agb2002: White has the bishop pair for both knights.
White can destroy the black castle by combining Bxe6 and Bxf6. This suggests 24.Bxf6 (24.Be6 Re8) 24... gxf6 25.Bxe6: A) 25... fxe6 26.Qxe6+
A.1) 26... Kg7 27.Rd7+ Kg6 (else mate in two) 28.Qf7+, with the idea of eventually capturing on f6 with check, looks winning. For example, 28... Kf5 29.g4+ Ke5 30.Re7+ Kd4 31.Qxf6+ Kd3 32.Re3+ Kd2 33.Rc3 Qf8 34.Qd4+ Ke1 35.Re3#. A.2) 26... Kh8 27.Qxf6+ Kg8 28.Qg6+ Kf(h)8 29.Qxh6+ gets four pawns and the iniciative for a knight. A.3) 26... Kf8 27.Qxf6+ Ke8 28.Qe6+ Kf8 (28... Qe7 29.Qxc8+) 29.Qxh6+ as in A.2. B) 25... Re8 26.Qg4+ wins a pawn. |
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Mar-06-21
| | chrisowen: Taxing problem. |
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| Mar-06-21 | | mlskdney: bd6 traps the queen |
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| Mar-06-21 | | Brenin: <miskdney>: No, after 24 Bd6 Black can save the Q with Qf5, though 25 Bxb4 axb4 then wrecks his Q-side pawns (see earlier posts by <Viking707>, <chancho> and myself). |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 25.Bxe6