|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-09-22 | | jerseybob: <technical draw: This game cost Fischer first place. The tournament ended with Spassky 1st and Fischer 1/2 point behind.> Only if it had happened in the last round! Otherwise, that's the fallacy of the pre-determined outcome. |
|
| Jun-13-22 | | technical draw: <jerseybob> The pre-determined fallacy is an interesting philosophical idea but it doesn't work in real life. Life is a continuum, and chess is life broken into individual trials. |
|
| Jun-13-22 | | jerseybob: <technical draw: <jerseybob> The pre-determined fallacy is an interesting philosophical idea but it doesn't work in real life. Life is a continuum, and chess is life broken into individual trials.> Chess is part of life, and a chess tournament is just as much a continuum as a comparable time spent doing something else. What happens along the way affects your future conduct; my point was I don't think outcomes are pre-determined. If I correctly understood your original post, you were saying that if Fischer hadn't lost in round 7 to Najdorf, every result he recorded in the next 11 rounds would've been exactly the same and Bobby would have won by a half-point. Maybe yes, maybe no. And would his opponents have done the same thing in their games? Maybe Spassky would've tried a little harder. I shouldn't have used a high-falutin' phrase to describe my feelings, but I will stand by the essence of the argument. |
|
| Jun-13-22 | | technical draw: <jerseybob> <I will stand by the essence of the argument.> Ok, good enough for me. |
|
| Jun-15-22 | | technical draw: <jerseybob> Here's an interesting question. let's say you are a chess amateur with an ELO of about 1700. You are playing against world champion Magnus Carlsen with an ELO of 2800+. Is it pre-determined that you will lose? Think about this in the form of another question: Is pre-determination a function of probability? Cheers. |
|
| Jun-15-22 | | jerseybob: Well, back in 1970 I beat Bent Larsen in a simul, an event pictured in the January 1971 issue of CL&R (that's me in the lower left). I didn't feel that I was doomed to lose and by God I didn't! |
|
| Jun-15-22 | | technical draw: <jerseybob> In 1970 I was playing my best chess but I couldn't beat GM Miguel Najdorf in a simul. He later showed me where I went wrong. |
|
| Jun-19-22 | | Z free or die: <<jerseybob> : Well, back in 1970 I beat Bent Larsen in a simul, an event pictured in the January 1971 issue of CL&R (that's me in the lower left).> <jb> - I looked up that issue of CL&R to find the photo, and it looks as if you're a few moves behind all the other players. Was that because you were substituting for a no-show, or were you late (perhaps deliberately so as part of a psych-ops ploy - just kidding!)? Or am I mistaken about the premise?
Thanks.
. |
|
Jun-19-22
 | | fredthebear: Sigh. Congratulations <jerseybob>!! |
|
| Jun-20-22 | | Z free or die: Here's the Jan 1971 CL&R issue with the photo from the Westfield, NJ Larsen simul: http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL... It's on p44.
The game on the bottom left, presumably with <jerseybob> as White, looks to have only played 1.e4 e5 - whereas all the other games seem to be several more moves into their games. . |
|
Jun-20-22
| | fredthebear: That doesn't look like <jerseybob>. This is JB: https://www.bing.com/images/search?... |
|
| Jun-21-22 | | Z free or die: <<FtB> That doesn't look like <jerseybob>. This is JB:> Well, that may be <a> JerseyBob, but not necessarily <our> JerseyBob. I gotz to see some chess pieces in the photo... |
|
Jun-21-22
| | fredthebear: Let's hope <jerseybob> appreciates the extra attention he is getting. Do you realize that 1971 was 50+ years ago? The Watergate scandal broke, but Richard Nixon was still re-elected, winning 49 of 50 states. The Vietnam war (1955-1975) was raging. Elvis Presley was shakin' to Heartbreak Hotel and Hound Dog. Jim Morrison OD'd. Clint Eastwood was Dirty Harry, Tom Laughlin was Billy Jack, and Gene Hackman was chasing The French Connection. The Last Picture Show wasn't the last one after all. The Oscar for Best Film went to Patton starring George C. Scott. Helter Skelter killer Charles Manson and his female followers were convicted. D.B. Cooper parachuted to fame w/the ransom money. Adam-12, Hawaii Five-O, Bonanza, Gun Smoke, and Ironside were on television, but cigarette advertisements are banned. We can't forget Sanford and Son, The Carol Burnett Show, and Monday Night Football. Golf is the only sport that has been played on the moon, because on February 6th, 1971, astronaut Alan Shepard hit a golf ball. The legendary golfer Jack Nicklaus won the U.S. Open. The #1 Nebraska Cornhuskers defeated the #2 Oklahoma Sooners 35-31 in college football's Game of the Century behind Heisman trophy winner Johnny "The Jet" Rodgers. The first Starbucks opened at the Pike Place Market in Seattle, Washington. Taco Bell, founded by Glen Bell, was started in Downey, California. The slow cooking Crockpot sales exploded. Ray Tomlinson invented internet-based email. The one and only Bobby Fischer smashed the field at the World Candidates Matches in 1971, and would defeat Boris Spassky for the world chess championship a year later. Raymond Keene, one of several young English players chasing the country's first grandmaster title, wins the British Chess Championship. |
|
Jun-21-22
 | | MissScarlett: We didn’t start the fire. |
|
Jun-21-22
| | fredthebear: Don't say "fire" too loud -- it might cause a panic. So, the deadliest hotel fire in history happened in 1971: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daeye... The Door to Hell opened in 1971: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science... and https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl... Also, 1971 was the 100th anniversary of The Great Chicago fire blamed on Mrs. O'Leary's cow: https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/08/... and https://education.nationalgeographi... For those wanting hot romance, The Love Machine came out in 1971. Why yes, there is smoking in bed (that's a no-no) and an apartment fire in this movie: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?... Were these deadly fires pre-mediated, pre-determined, insanity, bad luck, weather/climate related, the devil's due, an internal server error or oversight? One can only guess. Then of course, there was the 1971 Pontiac Firebird: https://www.musclecarfacts.com/pont... Some fires burn eternal.
Oh, let's see where Bent Larsen ranks on the Top 10 list in 1971: Top players
FIDE top 10 by Elo rating - January 1971
Bobby Fischer United States 2740
Boris Spassky Soviet Union 2690
Viktor Korchnoi Soviet Union 2660
Bent Larsen Denmark 2660
Tigran Petrosian Soviet Union 2640
Lajos Portisch Hungary 2630
Mikhail Botvinnik Soviet Union 2630
Efim Geller Soviet Union 2630
Lev Polugaevsky Soviet Union 2630
Mikhail Tal Soviet Union 2620
jerseybob? |
|
Jun-21-22
| | fredthebear: my premeditated is missing a "t" above.
premeditated
[ˌprēˈmedəˌtādid]
ADJECTIVE
(of an action, especially a crime) thought out or planned beforehand: "premeditated murder" Why is it that a bear can read something four or five times, edit and post it, then and only then see a misspelling after going public? Ol' FTB was probably distracted by thoughts of The Love Machine, or the Pontiac Firebird, which might be one and the same, depending upon the circumstances. Stay cool, wet and sober everybody! It's the first official day of summer 2022. |
|
Jun-21-22
 | | harrylime: Watts riots goin on with this game here ?? |
|
Jun-21-22
 | | saffuna: The Watts riots were in 1965. |
|
Jun-21-22
| | harrylime: <<saffuna: The Watts riots were in 1965.>> Thanks mate I did not know . lol lol |
|
Jun-21-22
| | harrylime: Bobby came back in this tournament.
By half way he was in last place or near enuff lol Credit and respects to Najdorf here .. |
|
Jun-21-22
| | fredthebear: I figured you two fellas would have some insights on The Love Machine or The Door to Hell? Najdorf's only classical win over BF in 9 tries. Najdorf won the 1965 Mar del Plata Tournament, so he was still formidable. |
|
Jun-21-22
| | saffuna: In OMGP 4, Kasparov quotes Mednis as saying 14...Qe7 was the decisive error, and says 14...b4 was the best move. Kasparov writes, after this game:
"A second successive nought, and what's more, against an "old man," left Fischer in a groggy state. In the next round he lost to Spassky and thus Najdorf was at the centre of an historic event: three successive defeats had occurred in his opponent's career only once before--in the 1959 Candidates tournament (where the youth was tested by Tal, Smyslov and Keres). And Bobby never again allowed this to happen!" |
|
Jun-21-22
| | harrylime:
<<saffuna: In OMGP 4, Kasparov quotes>> lolo lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
STOP Reeeeeeeeht THERE mate |
|
Jun-21-22
| | saffuna: Do you work at being offensive, <harrylime>, or is it just a gift? |
|
Jun-21-22
| | harrylime: Anything Kasparov says or writes on RJF is designed to flatter his own legacy. Trust me on this one lol lol |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
