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Jan-29-08 | | blacksburg: waitzkin was never world class, and he could never have challenged kasparov or anand, but it would be silly for me to criticize him for this. he was a stronger player as a teenager than i will ever be in my life. i would like to say this though - waitzkin's commentary on the Chessmaster program was very helpful to me and i appreciate his contribution. kramnik, for example, might wipe the floor with waitzkin, but waitzkin has contributed more to my understanding of chess through his commentaries than kramnik ever will, unless he decides to start writing. the ultimate responsibility of a chess player, aside from winning games, is to bring outsiders into the fold, to spread the enjoyment of chess to more people around the world. for this reason, i value waitzkin's contributions to chess much more than kramniks, even if waitzkin was never a world champ. |
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Jan-29-08 | | Petrosianic: <I don't know what you're talking about...You seem to be arguing with yourself.> LOL. It's always funny when people don't realize the implications of their own words. <And I think jealousy re: the movie, and his fame, has a lot to do with it.> There you go, you're getting warmer again.
His fame is one reason, right. The fact that you referenced earlier, that his dad's book describes him as a prodigy when he really isn't, that's another reason, and tied to the first one. The misapplied "Prodigy" label makes people perceive him as over-rated. And probably a third reason is the title of the book. It might as well be called "Bobby Fischer, Though He Has Nothing To Do With This Book, Is Mentioned In the Title Because We Thought It Might Make More Of You Rubes Buy It Just For That Reason". It comes across as vaguely insulting to the buyer's intelligence somehow. |
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Jan-30-08 | | VinnyRoo2002: Searching for Bobby Fischer has two meanings. The literal one where they try to find Bobby Fischer which is actually an interesting sub-plot in the movie and not some tacked on storyline just to include Fischer's name in the title and have more viewers. The other meaning is searching for the next Bobby Fischer. That's why the title is appropriate to Waitzkin and his quest to be the next world champion even if that was and is an unrealistic goal. |
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Jan-30-08 | | Petrosianic: <The literal one where they try to find Bobby Fischer which is actually an interesting sub-plot in the movie and not some tacked on storyline just to include Fischer's name in the title> I haven't read the book, and I only saw the movie once. But my recollection from thumbing through the book is that "Searching For Bobby Fischer" is the last chapter in the book, and looked like a collection of Fischer rumors superfluous to the main story (mind you, I developed that opinion not from reading the book, but from just thumbing through it in a bookstore once). <The other meaning is searching for the next Bobby Fischer.> Yes, and I think that's another reason why Waitzkin gets heat. That meaning, combined with the unfortunate label "Prodigy", which the publishers stuck on, may lead the casual listener to think that the book is saying "America is looking for the next Bobby Fischer, and here he is: My son Josh!" Of course I'm sure the book isn't saying that, but if that's what people think, that's the way they'll react. So, rather than jealousy, I think that the backlash against Waitzkin is the result of some bad marketing decisons. |
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Jan-30-08 | | Riverbeast: <So, rather than jealousy, I think that the backlash against Waitzkin is the result of some bad marketing decisons.> I know Josh Waitzkin, and I know many of the players in NYC who resented him ("I'm a better player, and nobody made a movie about me!") Trust me, jealousy has a lot to do with it.
Your other points, about bad marketing decisions, is just a repeat of what I said earlier. People have to understand that to many people who don't play chess, Josh was a prodigy of a sort. He was the highest rated player in the US at his age. Chessplayers use the word 'prodigy' much more sparingly and selectively than non-chessplayers. |
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Jan-30-08 | | benjinathan: <Chessplayers use the word 'prodigy' much more sparingly and selectively than non-chessplayers.> I agree. This seems like terrible hairsplitting. He was as a kid, a very good chessplayer for his age. Some would say he was a prodigy. Some might not. Who cares. The movie was enjoyable. I wonder, though, if the resentment towards him has everything to do with jealousy. I wonder if people resent him because he quit (not wanting to spend 12 hours a day for the possibility of the privledge of spending 2 weeks competing for a top prize of 10,000 Euros). He had talent (how much is open for debate) and he gave up the game that so many on this site love. This I don't get:
<I just think that the guy is way over-rated> Overrated by whom? Chessplayers know how good he was. Nobody else has ever heard of him. |
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Jan-30-08 | | Red October: nice pic <chessgames.com> |
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Jan-30-08 | | arsen387: I've learned playing chess due to "Josh Waitzkin's Academy" section in Chessmaster10 where he expains principles of chess from novice to (almost) professional. Thanks to Josh. |
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Feb-05-08
 | | tpstar: *SPOILER ALERT*
OK, I just saw SFBF for the first time, and it was cute - not spectacular, not life-changing, but cute. The best part was how the chess content was factually correct (compared to typical pop culture references), and it was quite compelling to watch his progression and improvement through his father's eyes. All of the characters were recognizable (loved the cameos), and even the key combination at the climax was believable (Both Sides Queen + Skewer). The worst parts were their protracted conversation OTB during the big game (totally fake), nobody shaking hands or taking notation for major events, and their strange pronunciation of "patzer" as "potzer" (like Pottsie from "Happy Days") which might be correct for all I know. From a filmmaking perspective, the pace was not only slow but plodding (I daresay unbearably plodding) and could easily turn off non-chessplayers long before the movie ended. I sensed the father slyly included several stock stereotypes of other parents just to make himself look good: overbearing, must-win, nervous to the point of psychotic, signalling, fighting, living vicariously through their child, etc. It was somewhat implausible how a sports reporter could afford $60/hour for his son to play "Clue" in his room, and parts of those "lessons" were hardly productive (master points?!). Presumably Bruce Pandolfini was fully aware of his portrayal, which didn't at all match the kind gentle encouraging patron displayed in his writings. Instead this "teacher" was an oddball stalker who showed up at the strangest times in the strangest places just to say something profound. The child acting was very good overall, although the main character overdid his "spaced out eyes" look too often. Frankly the highlight was the Fischer documentary material which I could watch for hours, especially after his death. I totally disagree with "not some tacked on storyline" as it was clearly some tacked on storyline. I can see how Bobby Fischer would object to people using his name like that (and profiting like that), even though it was a grand compliment. Finally, I believe Josh Waitzkin deserves some of the blame for his "prodigy" label as he does call himself "Eight Time National Champion" which might be true for scholastics but hardly correct for the real US Championship. Reading those credentials, anyone would seriously wonder why he would ever give up chess. |
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Apr-23-08 | | BIDMONFA: Joshua Waitzkin WAITZKIN, Joshua
http://www.bidmonfa.com/waitzkin_jo...
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Apr-23-08 | | MaxxLange: <tpstar> the Fischer stuff seemed just as tacked on in the book. Basically, there's a chapter in the middle where Fred Waitzkin recounts his fruitless efforts to locate and interview RJF. Then he gets back to the story of his son's experiences playing chess, which is what the book is about. It's a good read, and the film was way better than I expected. It was cast well, for one thing. |
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Apr-23-08 | | Granny O Doul: <tpstar> Yes, it is pronounced "potzer"; at least, I have never heard it pronounced otherwise. Extending the hand to offer a draw (rather than to resign) unfortunately seems to have caught on some. Mostly with little kids, but I once saw an experienced adult rated over 2000 do it (he said he was inspired by the movie). |
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Jun-01-08 | | Akuni: There's been a lot of talk here about what "Searching for Bobby Fischer" means. Waitzkin said it was a reference to what his trainer, Bruce Pandolfini tried to get him to do, which was to find his inner agression, or something. Basically, play in a style characteristic of Fischer. |
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Jun-02-08 | | Jim Bartle: "Presumably Bruce Pandolfini was fully aware of his portrayal, which didn't at all match the kind gentle encouraging patron displayed in his writings." I don't think that's true. A person has little control over how he's portrayed in a non-fiction book or movie. |
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Jun-02-08 | | RookFile: I don't think the exposure that Pandolifini got in the movie hurt him. You'd think from watching the movie that he was a legendary world caliber player that was helping out young Joshua. Sure, he's a master, but he's got some work to do to approach the stuff that Mark Dvoretsky and others have accomplished. So, in this case, I think the publicity helped, rather than hurt, his career. |
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Jun-06-08 | | TheCap: I do not believe that the movie was about Waitzkin. It was about chess and the love of the game. Waitzkin just happened to be the main character. I bet that you have all experienced similar scenes in your chesslife....the young kid and the players in the park, the genius killer combination that knocks out the much stronger opponent, the tournament halls, the first time you beat your father (may be not on the first day you played him), the mad chess geniusses, the ambitious "always wanting to win" opponent kid... search in your life and you find a piece of Bobby Fischer, doesn't matter how small it is and that is why we are all registered here....isn't that great. Having said all that: where is Waitzkin know ? Has he disappeared ?
I must sadly admit I have no idea... |
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Jun-06-08 | | Strongest Force: I think Josh has immersed himself deeply into various eastern philosophies on which he occasionally gives lectures. I recently tried to contact him as a "old friend from the park" but i dont think my letter was read; instead, i was sent a "form letter" inviting me to some lecture about eastern philosophy. |
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Jun-12-08 | | Udit Narayan: Mr. Waitzkin, you are an inspiration! |
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Jun-13-08 | | Granny O Doul: "Have no friends not equal to yourself"--Confucius |
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Jun-13-08 | | Pintweaks: My all time favourite film is Innocent Moves. All about Josh Waitzkin. Suberb display by the young man who played Josh. |
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Jun-19-08 | | Count Isouard III: i think josh has rechanneled his energy into the martial arts specifically taichi and he is a push hands world champion. Has he even played chess recently? |
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Jul-20-08 | | ravel5184: Anyone know about that Waitzkin game on Chessmaster where he sacs two exchanges as Black and wins? Please help me, I am looking for more games to put in my new <notyetagm>-inspired collection Game Collection: Minor piece > Rook in super-closed positions |
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Aug-04-08 | | Hector Maluy: Will Josh Waitzkin play chess again?
Why did he give up chess so soon? |
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Aug-04-08 | | MaxxLange: <Hector Maluy>He probably talks about those things in his book, check the library My impression was that he felt kind of trapped in chess, and decided to stop with his IM title, and to go to university on a serious basis instead of continuing to try to get more norms, invites, etc. |
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Aug-04-08 | | MaxxLange: afaik he says he doesn't intend to play serious chess again |
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