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Feb-23-08 | | Jim Bartle: "I never play the Najdorf
I only bore you with my Petroff"
Instant karma!! Great stuff. |
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Feb-27-08 | | Knight13: Except that Petroff isn't really boring! |
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Feb-28-08 | | Zonszein: I never understood (with all my respect to the great player) why Tal is considered more brilliant than Spassky..
I don't know a single Tal game as deep and spectacular than the Spassky-Bronstein one, in 1960.. Can anybody tell me?Maybe I miss something. But in my view Spassky's tactical skills are not less than Tal's; to say the least.. |
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Feb-28-08 | | Udit Narayan: I think that Spassky is highly underestimated due to his loss against Fischer in '72. |
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Feb-28-08 | | Riverbeast: Spassky was a brilliant player and champion, I don't think any knowledgeable chess fan really disputes that. He was one of the best players in the world, if not THE best, for a long time. I think a lot of fans may prefer Tal's style of play because of all his sacrifices and swashbuckling attacks...Spassky was capable of playing like this, but he also played many subtle, positional games that amateurs sometimes are not as attracted to (why, I don't know)...but I don't know if Tal is widely considered a better player than Spassky. According to this database, Spassky has a slight winning record against Tal - 9 to 7 draws not included |
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Feb-28-08 | | percyblakeney: Spassky had 9-2 in decisive games against Tal before the latter won five more, and it could even have been 10-1 before that: Spassky vs Tal, 1958 |
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Feb-28-08
 | | keypusher: My God, this page is a riot! |
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Feb-28-08
 | | Open Defence: Picture yourself
On a plane to Elista
Where cables run deep
Below bathroom tiles
Somebody calls you
You answer quite slowly
While Silvio Danailov he smiles....
Bobby's in the sky
with Misha
Bobby's in the sky
with Misha
Bobby's in the sky
with Misha
Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh
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Feb-28-08
 | | Open Defence: < percyblakeney: Spassky had 9-2 in decisive games against Tal before the latter won five more, and it could even have been 10-1 before that: > I think in the book Life and Games of Mikhail Tal he says that Spassky was not his favourite opponent... |
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Feb-28-08 | | Knight13: <Udit Narayan: I think that Spassky is highly underestimated due to his loss against Fischer in '72.> Yeah, I know. He was a great player. |
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Feb-28-08 | | goldenbear: Since I made the comment that nobody here understands Spassky, it seems like everyone has come to an understanding of Spassky. These last 6 pages or so are much more like what a Spassky page ought to be. |
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Feb-29-08 | | Voltaic: well, Spassky was great, in fact the chess world needs another Spassky |
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Feb-29-08 | | M.D. Wilson: I have always included Spassky in my top 10 list. Tal is also included in that list, but after Spassky. Both were enormously talented players. Spassky said the hardest player he ever faced was Karpov. The appearance of Karpov on the scene during the 70s affected Spassky more than his loss to Fischer. Spassky knew that he had little hope of winning back the title from Fischer or Karpov. |
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Feb-29-08 | | percyblakeney: Just Spassky's scores in Candidates matches 1965-68 is enough to list him as at least one of the better match players. Only counting won games it is: 1965: Keres, 4-2
1965: Geller, 3-0
1965: Tal, 4-1
1968: Geller, 3-0
1968: Larsen, 4-1
1968: Korchnoi, 4-1
In 1974 Spassky won against Byrne (3-0) but lost against Karpov. He once again reached the Candidates final in 1977 (after beating Hort and Portisch), when he was 40 and a bit past his prime. He won four games in a row against Korchnoi, but lost the match. In 1980 he drew his last Candidates match, against Portisch, but the latter was declared the winner because of having won a game with black. |
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Feb-29-08
 | | keypusher: One of chessmetrics' nice features is that it gives you an expected score for each event based on the players' ratings and compares it with the actual score. In all of his candidates' matches in 1965 and 1968 Spassky outperformed his rating, scoring between 0.9 (Keres) and 1.8 games (Tal and Korchnoi) better than expected. http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/Sing... It's hard to avoid the conclusion that his rating did not reflect his real strength. |
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Feb-29-08 | | Petrosianic: True, but you can also see the weaknesses in the system by examining Spassky's results. According to chessmetrics, Korchnoi was higher rated than Spassky both before their 1968 Candidates Final Match, and <still> higher rated after losing to him decisively. But I think it's clear which of them deserved to challenge for the title. |
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Feb-29-08
 | | keypusher: <petrosianic> Well, that just goes to your point about Petrosian and Larsen: Larsen was much better at winning games against weaker opponents than Petrosian, but Petrosian had a big edge over Larsen in head-to-head games. Who was the better player? Most of us would say Petrosian, but Larsen frequently had the higher rating. That's a problem with rating systems generally, and I don't think it's fixable. |
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Feb-29-08 | | percyblakeney: <According to chessmetrics, Korchnoi was higher rated than Spassky both before their 1968 Candidates Final Match, and <still> higher rated after losing to him decisively> At the same time Korchnoi did have an extremely good 1968. He won Wijk aan Zee with a margin of three points, was clear first in Palma de Mallorca (ahead of Larsen, Spassky and Petrosian), won individual gold in the Olympiad after going +9 -0 =4, and won against Tal and Reshevsky in Candidates matches. Can't have been that much that separated Spassky and Korchnoi in 1968, but in their match Spassky was clearly better. |
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Feb-29-08 | | Petrosianic: Yeah, I don't think it's fixable either.
I don't know who was the "better" player in 1968, Korchnoi or Spassky. But I do think that the result of their match showed that Spassky was the better suited of the two to go one-on-one with one single super-elite opponent (which is something the rating system doesn't even try to address). Of course by their 1977 match, things between the two of them had changed drastically. I shudder to think how badly Spassky might have gotten blown out if Korchnoi hadn't gone to pieces over something trivial. |
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Mar-13-08
 | | ketchuplover: Spassky said computers have killed chess. |
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Mar-13-08 | | unsound: Well, he said they'd killed "classic chess," anyway. A much exaggerated report, in my opinion. |
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Mar-13-08 | | MichAdams: In Kasparov's book Revolution in the 1970s, there's a chapter called The Opinions of 28 World Experts (one of whom apparently is GM Keene). Yuri Razuvaev bemoans the influence of computers, and concludes: <I am reading with pleasure the multi-tome My Great Predecessors - a monument to the wonderful chess of the past. Alas, such chess is no longer possible. Previously a grandmaster was about thirty years old, now he is about seventeen, and some are altogether children. Different people - a different game! One can compare it with the cinema: previously it was largely adults who went there, whereas now it is teenagers.> |
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Mar-13-08 | | unsound: Well, that just sounds like an ageing man's suspicion of youth, doesn't it? For one thing, most of the world's elite actually still are in their thirties--Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Moro, Svidler, Ivanchuk, Shirov etc. might disagree with Razuvaev. And there have been child chess prodigies since long before the advent of Rybka. There are surely more interesting ways to grumble nostalgically about computers than Razuvaev's. |
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Mar-14-08 | | A.G. Argent: <unsound> <...children...prodigies> Exactly. And what about that minor player of the NINETEENTH century starting out as a wee lad named Morphy? |
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Mar-14-08 | | Riverbeast: I also don't agree that computers have killed chess. Chess is too rich a game to be completely 'figured out'. Even if computers eventually find the best moves in every position, humans will never be able to play like them, and therefore will have to resort to their own creativity and instinct. Look how beautifully and creatively Morozevich plays...he's a member of the 'computer generation' I do think chess was more creative in the 60s and 70s when Spassky played, because they didn't have so much knowledge so easily available...But the reports of chess being dead are vastly exaggerated. Capablanca and Fischer also said chess was 'played out' and 'dead'....Maybe they thought so, because they were the best in their times... but with all due respect to them, chess is very much alive among the rest of us mortals |
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