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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-07-18 | | todicav23: <Howard: The Oxford Companion to Chess (1992) states that he may have been the greatest natural player in the history of chess.... ...though the late Larry Evans said the same about Capablanca in a mid-70's column.> Based on what? He was a top 10 player in the world at his best and nothing more. He learned to play indian chess (very similar with chess) at 9. By contrast, Pillsbury learned to play chess at 16 and he was far more successful. Morphy, Pillsbury, Capablanca (just to name a few) were more talented than Sultan Khan. Sultan Khan is just like Ramanujan in mathematics. Ramanujan is extremely popular and considered somehow the ultimate genius despite the fact that other mathematicians had much greater impact. |
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Jan-07-18
 | | MissScarlett: <I had no luck submitting games in the (distant) past. So I have not attempted to submit this one.> Patience, my little man. Things have notably improved. But, in this case, allow me. |
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| Jan-07-18 | | zanzibar: Thanks <WilhelmThe2nd> for the reply. Unfortunate how often the net devolves. * * * * *
<MissS> such a true little woman, always ready to come to the aid, and with a kindly word or two. |
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| Apr-14-18 | | zborris8: <Submitted> Khan's simul game vs Aitken - this is a newly corroborated score. It is no.83a in Aitken's Chess Scorebook which is at the Edinburgh Chess Club. [Event "Oxford"]
[Site "Oxford"]
[Date "1933.11.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Black "Aitken, J."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C36"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "1933.??.??"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d5 4. exd5 Nf6 5. c4 c6 6. dxc6 Nxc6 7. d4 Bb4+ 8. Nc3 O-O 9. Bxf4 Bg4 10. d5 Re8+ 11. Be2 Qb6 12. dxc6 Rad8 13. Bd2 Bxc3 14. bxc3 Ne4 15. Nd4 Bxe2 16. Qb3 Bxc4 17. Qxb6 axb6 18. O-O-O Nf2 19. cxb7 Bd5 20. Bg5 f6 21. Bf4 Bxb7 22. Bc7 Rd7 23. Bxb6 Nxh1 24. Rxh1 Bxg2 25. Rg1 Bd5 26. a4 Re3 27. Rg3 Rxg3 28. hxg3 Kf7 29. a5 Bc4 30. Kb2 h5 31. Ka3 g5 32. Kb4 Ba6 33. Nb3 Rd6 34. Nc5 Bc8 35. Bc7 Rc6 36. Bb8 Ba6 37. Ba7 h4 38. gxh4 gxh4 39. Bb8 h3 40. Bh2 f5 41. Nxa6 Rxa6 42. Kb5 Ra8 43. a6 Kg6 44. Kb6 Kg5 45. Kb7 Rxa6 46. Kxa6 f4 47. c4 f3 48. c5 f2 49. c6 f1=Q+ 50. Kb7 Qb5+ 51. Kc7 Kf6 52. Kd6 Qd3+ 53. Kc7 Ke7 54. Kc8 Qe2 55. Bb8 Qa6+ 56. Kc7 h2 0-1 w/analysis
https://lichess.org/oG3PEVQs#94 |
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Apr-14-18
| | MissScarlett: <[Event "Simul, 14b"]
[Site "Oxford ENG"]
[Date "1933.11.23"]
Sure of the date? The <Hastings & St. Leonards Observer> of December 2nd gives November 25th. |
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| Apr-14-18 | | zborris8: <MissScarlett> Khan participated in a London tournament on November the 25th, 1933.
-----
<Submitted>
-----
[Event "Imperial CC v Cambridge University"]
[Site "London"]
[Date "1933.11.25"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Black "Craddock, James Marston"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C14"]
[PlyCount "84"]
[EventDate "1933.11.25"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.02.22"]
[WhiteTeam "Imperial CC"]
[BlackTeam "Cambridge University"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 a6 7. Qg4 h5 8. Qf4 c5
9. dxc5 f6 10. exf6 gxf6 11. Bh6 e5 12. Qd2 Nxc5 13. Be2 Bg4 14. f3 Be6 15.
O-O-O Nc6 16. g4 d4 17. Ne4 Nxe4 18. fxe4 hxg4 19. Rf1 Rc8 20. a3 Qb6 21. Bg7
Na5 22. Qd3 Rg8 23. Bh6 Nb3+ 24. Kd1 Nc5 25. Qd2 Nxe4 26. Qd3 f5 27. Bc1 Bc4
28. Qxc4 Rxc4 29. Bxc4 Rh8 30. Rh2 f4 31. Re1 g3 32. Rhe2 Nf2+ 33. Kd2 e4 34.
Rxe4 Nxe4+ 35. Rxe4 d3 36. Nh3 Rxh4 37. Ng5 Rh2+ 38. Kxd3 Qd6+ 39. Kc3 Qf6+ 40.
Kb3 Qxg5 41. Bxf4 Qg4 42. Bd6 Qd1 0-1
<Source: Times Literary Supplement, 7 Dec 1933.> |
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Apr-15-18
| | MissScarlett: Now I'm up to speed with the English Chess Forum discussion about this game. The link won't post properly for some reason. There's no need to post the full score of submitted games. |
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| Apr-23-18 | | Chessinfinite: Not surprisingly, Khan's page is swarming with Brits, just like it must have been when he beat Tartakower or when he won the British Championship.. |
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| Apr-14-20 | | Caissanist: GM Daniel King has published a new biography of Khan, which seems interesting. Summary here: https://www.chess.com/article/view/... . |
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| Apr-19-20 | | CarlosCleto: Sultan Khan games from the 22nd British Chess Championship (Ramsgate 1929) [Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.07.29"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hamond, Francis Edward (Rev"]
[Black "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[PlyCount "85"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c6 5. e3 Bd6 6. Qc2 Nbd7 7. Bd2 O-O 8. cxd5
exd5 9. Bd3 h6 10. g4 Re8 11. g5 hxg5 12. Nxg5 Nf8 13. O-O-O Ne6 14. h4 c5 15.
Rdg1 cxd4 16. Nxe6 Bxe6 17. exd4 Qc7 18. h5 Ne4 19. Bxe4 dxe4 20. Qxe4 f5 21.
Qh4 Bd5 22. h6 Bxh1 23. Rxg7+ Qxg7 24. hxg7 Bc6 25. d5 Bd7 26. Qh8+ Kf7 27.
Qh5+ Kg8 28. Qh8+ Kf7 29. Qh7 Rg8 30. Qh5+ Kxg7 31. Qh6+ Kf7 32. Qxd6 Rad8 33. Qc7 Ke8 34. Bf4 b5 35. Bd6 a5 36. Qxa5 Rc8 37. Qb6 Rc4 38. Kd2 f4 39. b3 Rc8
40. Ne4 Rg6 41. Qd4 Kf7 42. Qe5 b4 43. Qe7+ Sources: Manchester Guardian, 2
Aug 1929; ♗CM, Sept 1929, p360 1-0
[Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.07.31"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Black "Abrahams, Gerald"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C01"]
[PlyCount "73"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. d4 Nf6 5. Bd3 Bd6 6. O-O Nc6 7. Re1+ Ne7 8.
Bg5 Be6 9. Nc3 c6 10. Ne2 Qc7 11. Ng3 O-O-O 12. c3 h6 13. Bd2 h5 14. Bg5 Bg4
15. h3 h4 16. Nf1 Bh5 17. b4 Nfg8 18. Bf6 Nxf6 19. Ne3 Qd7 20. b5 Rdg8 21. bxc6
Qxc6 22. c4 Qd7 23. cxd5 Kb8 24. Rb1 g5 25. Bb5 Qc7 26. Qa4 g4 27. Rec1 Qd8 28.
hxg4 Bg6 29. Rb3 h3 30. Bc6 b6 31. Nc4 Nxc6 32. Qxc6 hxg2 33. Nxd6 Qe7 34. Re3
Rh1+ 35. Kxg2 Rxc1 36. Rxe7 Rxc6 37. dxc6 Sources: Glasgow Herald, 2 Aug 1929;
Cheltenham Chronicle, 17 August 1929; The Observer, 18 Aug 1929; ♗CM, Sept
1929, p363 1-0
[Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.08.01"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Fairhurst, William Albert"]
[Black "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D53"]
[PlyCount "80"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. Nf3 e6 2. d4 d5 3. c4 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8. Bd3
Bb7 9. O-O Nbd7 10. Qe2 c5 11. Rfd1 c4 12. Bc2 Nd5 13. Ne4 f6 14. Bh4 O-O 15.
Bg3 Qb6 16. Rac1 Rfd8 17. Bb1 Rac8 18. Ned2 Nf8 19. e4 Nb4 20. Nf1 a5 21. Ne3
Na6 22. a4 Nb4 23. axb5 Qxb5 24. b3 a4 25. bxa4 Qxa4 26. d5 exd5 27. exd5 Bxd5
28. Nxd5 Nxd5 29. Bxh7+ Kxh7 30. Rxd5 Rxd5 31. Qe4+ Kh8 32. Qxd5 Rd8 33. Qh5+
Kg8 34. Nh4 Ba3 35. Rf1 c3 36. Nf5 c2 37. Nd6 Qb3 38. Nf5 Rd1 39. Bf4 Rxf1+ 40.
Kxf1 Qb1+ Sources: Yorkshire ♙ost and Leeds Intelligencer, 9 August 1929; ♗CM,
Oct 1929, p403 0-1 |
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| Apr-19-20 | | CarlosCleto: [Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.08.06"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Price, Hubert Ernest"]
[Black "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B12"]
[PlyCount "76"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 e6 4. Bd3 c5 5. c3 Nc6 6. Ne2 Qb6 7. O-O Bd7 8. dxc5
Bxc5 9. b4 Be7 10. Be3 Qc7 11. f4 f5 12. Nd2 Nh6 13. h3 O-O 14. Nf3 a6 15. Kh1
Be8 16. Nfd4 Qd7 17. Bc2 Bh5 18. Qd3 Bg6 19. a3 Nxe5 20. fxe5 f4 21. Qd1 Bxc2
22. Qxc2 fxe3 23. Qd3 Bg5 24. Nf3 Qe7 25. g4 Rac8 26. Kg2 Rf7 27. Ned4 Bf4 28.
a4 Rff8 29. Ne2 g5 30. Rh1 Rc4 31. Ned4 Nf7 32. h4 Nxe5 33. Nxe5 Bxe5 34. hxg5
Rf2+ 35. Kg1 Bxd4 36. cxd4 Rcc2 37. Rh6 Rg2+ 38. Kh1 Qc7 Sources: Glasgow
Herald, 10 Aug 1929; ♗CM, Sept 1929, p364 (Star♗ase 4.56 gives five more moves
for each side) 0-1
[Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.08.07"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Michell, Reginald Pryce"]
[Black "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D13"]
[PlyCount "112"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 5. cxd5 cxd5 6. Bf4 Nc6 7. Qc2 e6 8. a3
Bd7 9. e3 Qa5 10. Nd2 b5 11. Nb3 Qb6 12. Bd3 Be7 13. O-O Rc8 14. Qe2 h6 15.
Rac1 Na5 16. Nxa5 Qxa5 17. e4 Qb6 18. e5 Ng8 19. Qg4 g5 20. Be3 f5 21. exf6
Nxf6 22. Bg6+ Kd8 23. Qe2 Rc6 24. Bd3 Bd6 25. Kh1 Qb8 26. g3 Rc8 27. f4 g4 28.
f5 (28. Na2 $1) 28... e5 29. dxe5 Bxe5 30. Qf2 Rc6 31. Bd4 Bxd4 32. Qxd4 Qb6
33. Ne2 Qxd4 34. Nxd4 Rxc1 35. Rxc1 Ke7 36. Kg1 Kd6 37. Kf2 Re8 38. Nb3 Re5 39.
Nd4 Ne4+ 40. Kg2 Re8 41. Rf1 Ke5 42. Ne2 Bxf5 43. Nc3 Rf8 44. Re1 Kd4 45. Bxe4
Bxe4+ 46. Kg1 Kd3 47. Rd1+ Kc2 48. Rd4 Kxb2 49. Nxe4 dxe4 50. Rxe4 Kxa3 51.
Re3+ Kb4 52. Re4+ Kc3 53. Rxg4 a5 54. Rg6 Rh8 55. Ra6 a4 56. Kf1 Kb3 Sources:
Cheltenham Chronicle, 14 Sept 1929; ♗CM, Sept 1929, p354 0-1 [Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.08.08"]
[Round "10"]
[White "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Black "Winter, William"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B20"]
[PlyCount "145"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[Source "John Saunders"]
[SourceDate "2016.03.27"]
1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 e6 3. Nc3 a6 4. a4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nf6 6. Qe2 Nd4 7. Nxd4 cxd4 8.
Nb1 d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. O-O Be7 11. d3 O-O 12. Nd2 b6 13. Nf3 Bf6 14. Qe4 Bb7
15. Nxd4 Qd7 16. Nf3 Nc3 17. Qg4 Ne2+ 18. Kh1 Nxc1 19. Raxc1 b5 20. axb5 axb5
21. Bb3 Bxb2 22. Rb1 Bf6 23. Rfe1 Qd6 24. Qg3 Qxg3 25. hxg3 Bc3 26. Re2 Rfd8
27. Ng5 g6 28. Ne4 Bd4 29. f3 h5 30. Kh2 Kg7 31. f4 Bc6 32. Ng5 Re8 33. Nf3 Bc3
34. Kg1 Re7 35. Ng5 Rae8 36. Ne4 Bd4+ 37. Kh2 f5 38. Ng5 e5 39. Kh3 e4 40. dxe4
fxe4 41. Kh2 Bf6 42. Rd1 Bxg5 43. fxg5 e3 44. Rd6 Bd7 45. Bd5 Bg4 46. Bf3 Rd7
47. Rxd7+ Bxd7 48. Re1 b4 49. g4 hxg4 50. Be2 Bf5 51. Rb1 Re4 52. Kg3 Kf7 53.
c3 bxc3 54. Rc1 Ke6 55. Rxc3 Ke5 56. Rc5+ Kd4 57. Rc4+ Kd5 58. Rc1 Rd4 59. Rc3
Ke4 60. Rc7 Rd2 61. Re7+ Kd4 62. Bxg4 Bxg4 63. Kxg4 Rxg2+ 64. Kf3 Rf2+ 65. Kg3
Rf5 66. Re6 Rxg5+ 67. Kf3 Rf5+ 68. Ke2 Rf2+ 69. Ke1 g5 70. Rg6 Rg2 71. Kf1 e2+
72. Ke1 Ke3 $4 73. Rxg5 Source: Glasgow Herald, 17 Aug 1929. Contributed by
Gerard ♔illoran, 26 February 2016. Also Glasgow Herald, 14 Sept 1929 1/2-1/2 [Event "BCF-ch 22nd"]
[Site "Ramsgate, Chatham Hse Sch"]
[Date "1929.08.09"]
[Round "11"]
[White "Eva, Arthur"]
[Black "Sultan Khan, Mir"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D13"]
[PlyCount "82"]
[EventDate "1929.07.29"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "GBR"]
[SourceTitle "BritBase"]
[SourceDate "2018.04.27"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2018.04.27"]
[SourceQuality "1"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 a6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bf4 Nf6 7. h3 e6 8. e3
Qb6 9. Rb1 Bb4 10. Bd3 Bd7 11. O-O Rc8 12. Na4 Qa7 13. a3 Be7 14. b4 b6 15. Qe2
Nb8 16. Rfc1 O-O 17. Nc3 b5 18. Ne5 Nc6 19. Bg5 h6 20. Bh4 Be8 21. Rb3 Ne4 22.
Bxe7 Nxe7 23. Bb1 f6 24. Nd3 Nxc3 25. Rbxc3 Rxc3 26. Rxc3 Bg6 27. Qd1 Bxd3 28.
Qxd3 f5 29. Rc5 Rc8 30. f3 Qb8 31. e4 Rf8 32. Ba2 fxe4 33. fxe4 Qf4 34. exd5
Nxd5 35. Kh1 Qf2 36. Bxd5 exd5 37. Qc3 Re8 38. Rc8 Qf1+ 39. Kh2 Qf4+ 40. Kh1
Qf1+ 41. Kh2 Qf4+ Source: West Sussex Gazette, 22 August 1929, p5.
Contributed by Gerard ♔illoran, 27 April 2018. 1/2-1/2 Remaining games, from rounds 2, 5, 6 and 7 are lost. |
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May-16-20
 | | Sally Simpson: ***
Chessbase are fronting a petition to get Sultan Khan a G.M. title. https://en.chessbase.com/post/help-... Of course the fact Danny King has just brought a book on him is just a coincidence. meanwhile...
The grand daughter of Sultan Khan is so disappointed with the 'facts' in Danny King's book she wants it recalled. https://www.chess.com/blog/atiyabsu... I'm thinking the solution to this is to give Danny King's G.M. title to Sultan Khan. *** |
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May-16-20
| | MissScarlett: @#$% off! Where's Staunton's GM title!? I feel a top 10 list of most retrospectively deserving of a GM title coming on.... Repeat after me: IT DONT MATTER! |
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| May-16-20 | | JimNorCal: Staunton?
Wasn't he more of an organizer than a player?
Did all the pieces move the same way back then as they do now? :) :) :) |
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May-16-20
| | MissScarlett: Get out of here! Bobby Fischer never claimed Staunton was one of the ten best organisers of all time. |
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May-16-20
| | Sally Simpson: ***
Hi MissScarlett,
As I said on chessbase I think it's an advertising ploy to shift copies of the 'soon to be recalled' book on Sultan Khan. Agree it does not matter, it stopped mattering the day FIDE scrapped the old much harder and more deserved of method becoming a G.M. and introduced the norm format. When they do my bio book I hope my grand daughter gets copy to scrutinise....you can put me up for an honorary G.M. title. (though in my case G.M. = Geoff's Mad.) *** |
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| May-16-20 | | JimNorCal: "Bobby Fischer never claimed Staunton was one of the ten best organisers of all time." Yes, well, was there a later interview with Bobby where he said calling Staunton a strong player was a practical joke?
Because a bunch of Bobby's rivals suddenly sat up and were alarmed. "Bobby has been studying Staunton's games AND Bobby says they're really good!"
Then said rivals proceed to waste weeks going over Staunton games looking for insights. |
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May-17-20
 | | beatgiant: If we are talking about FIDE GM titles, it means people who were alive since FIDE started awarding them in 1950, right? After all, not even Steinitz, Lasker, Capablanca and Alekhine got one. As far as I know, FIDE has never given out titles posthumously. Of people alive in 1950, Sultan Khan and Znosko-Borovsky come to mind as players who were worthy of at least IM titles, but it probably comes down to lack of advocacy by their national chess federations. |
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May-17-20
| | MissScarlett: According to some, Staunton would barely merit an FM title, and Morphy, being generous, an IM. |
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May-17-20
| | Sally Simpson: ***
Hi beatgiant
FIDE awarded Rudolf Maric a pothumas G.M. title. Rudolf Maric (kibitz #5) I think another player got one as well, (other name escapes me.) Guess FIDE gave up the idea when it was realised no one would pay the 'you are now a G.M.' fee. Once you have gathered your norms, by fair means or foul, you, or your federation pay FIDE a fee - in 2010 the fees were thus: 50 euro for CM.
70 euro for FM.
165 euro for IM.
330 euro for GM.
So if you did it the ideal FIDE way, in steps, the total would be 615 euro. Since 2010 the fees may have gone up, or even lowered. *** |
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May-17-20
| | beatgiant: <Sally Simpson>
But now you are talking about "honorary grandmaster" which is not the same title as "grandmaster" and I doubt it requires payment of a fee. This matters even less than the actual title, except as a publicity stunt for the book as you pointed out, but more importantly, as publicity for chess, especially in South Asia, Sultan Khan's native place. |
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May-17-20
| | Sally Simpson: Hi Beat Giant,
Who will pay the fee was a wee joke.
But yes. When you mention the publicity Sultan Khan should get some recognition. Just hope it will not be viewed as an apology for the misunderstandings about him in print. Reuben Fine calls him a grandmaster! in this piece which may indeed contain some mistakes regarding his nationality and role. "In the meantime Sultan Khan, who was our real entrée to his presence, was treated as a servant by the maharajah (which in fact he was according to Indian law), and we found ourselves in the peculiar position of being waited on at table by a chess grand master.’ pages 24-25 of 'Lessons from My Games' by Reuben Fine. This is also repeated in Danny King's book. For more see Edward Winter's site:
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter... *** |
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| Sep-30-21 | | WNRRRWN: how good was this guy, like jacob yuchtman? |
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| Sep-30-21 | | WNRRRWN: what are results khan vs alekhine?
Sultan Khan vs Alekhine, 1933 |
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| Oct-08-21 | | RookFile: <Boomie: On the surface it appears that England oppressed India. > I almost choked on my meatball sub when I read this. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
