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| Apr-06-06 | | Caissanist: <ganstaman>: thanks a lot for clearing that up. It does seem that there's no real difference between "Old" and "Modern" most of the time, since black almost always winds up playing Nf6 anyway. Interesting opening, but I guess that's all it is. |
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| Apr-06-06 | | jamesmaskell: <Agent Rgent> Wheres the errors in the notation? I cant see them. |
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| Apr-06-06 | | who: 5.Bd6, 12.Bxc3 |
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| Apr-07-06 | | alicefujimori: <refutor><sure you can! 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 and only then ...c5 ;)>But what if White plays 3.Nc3 (ver common) and you want to play the Benoni? :) <or tranpose by 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 c5 instead of the King's Indian-esque 6. ...e5>If I rememeber correctly, that line is not very good for Black in the KID. |
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| Apr-07-06 | | refutor: <alicefujimori> if 3.Nc3 then you unleash the Nimzo ;) as for the "not very good for Black in the KID line" after 7.d5 e6 it's a very good benoni if he avoids it with 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 looks awkward, but it's been played by a bunch of players at the GM level (yanofsky, velimirovic, fedorowicz, cheparinov) with good success |
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| Apr-07-06 | | Zebra: There was also something called the Czech Benoni, which if I remember rightly involved ...e5 and a completely blocked centre. I can't remember the exact move order. |
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Apr-07-06
 | | Open Defence: <Could anyone tell me what they consider to be the "Modern Benoni", and what is the "Old Benoni/Classical Benoni"?> The modern Benoni does not give White the chance to play an early e4 (not really as most of the popular lines go) but that was the idea anyway .. the traditional "Old" Benoni has typical variations in which White does often play an early e4 .. Black seeks to pressure the e4 square with Nf6 ... e.g. 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nf3 c5 .... a typical modern Benoni line .. the Old Benoni can often transpose into some KID lines such as the Averbakh .. Four Pawns, etc |
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Apr-11-06
 | | Gypsy: <Zebra: There was also something called the Czech Benoni, which if I remember rightly involved ...e5 and a completely blocked centre. I can't remember the exact move order. > This puzzles. I can not quite figure out the pedigree of that variation. Pachman's "Modern Chess Theory" (1950's) coins the term <Hromadka Indian> for Modern Benoni buildups -- see
Repertoire Explorer: Karel Hromadka (black) -- and since Pachman was a well regarded encyklopedist, especially of opening theory, one needs to assume that this strong Czech master, Hromadka, indeed played a key role in the early days of 'Modern Benoni'. But Hromadka and other Czech masters played either the 'Modern' brand and/or Benko/Volga-like variations (early sac with b7-b5). The only disciple of note of the 'Czech school' that I see to have played the <e5> variation was Vera Menchik; and she has had a rather uninspired record with it. |
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| Apr-11-06 | | Zebra: <Gypsy> Right, I have looked up the position after 1 d4 Nf6, 2 c4 c5, 3 d5 e5 on this site, and found exactly as you say (though at least it is listed as "Czech Benoni"). No idea to be honest. Seeing positions like this put me off the Benoni altogether until Kasparov's games with the Modern Benoni got me interested. |
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Apr-11-06
| | Gypsy: <Zebra: ... No idea to be honest. Seeing positions like this put me off the Benoni altogether until Kasparov's games with the Modern Benoni got me interested.> It was also a Black favorite of Tal, of course. |
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Apr-11-06
 | | keypusher: I was surprised to see that there were so many Czech Benonis in the database: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...
I got a draw against a 2450 with it once. I am sure it's no good, but you can't help but have a warm feeling for an opening that gets you a result like that. |
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Apr-11-06
| | keypusher: As <gypsy> says, the pedigree is a puzzle, especially of what I think of as the pure Czech Benoni, 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5 3 d5 e5 4 Nc3 d6 5 e4 Be7. Blackburne played it in 1898(!); after that most of the early examples seem to be Soviet. |
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| Jun-02-06 | | Marmot PFL: I found an interesting Benoni game <Goldin vs A J Goldsby, 1998;, but when I tried to post they said the kibitzing area was locked! |
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| Jun-13-06 | | ganstaman: Above, <Gypsy> mentions Hromadka. I noticed that there is what's known as the Hromadka System of the Benoni, which goes 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 d6 4. Nc3 g6 5. e4 Bg7 etc., with plans to play ...e6 and enter a normal looking Benoni. Black's ...d6 and ...g6 are interchangeable, but them occuring before black plays e6 seems to me to be what classifies this as the Hromadka system. Black can play ...e5 and enter the Czech Benoni, as discussed above, or play ...e6 and get the usual Benoni without having to face the Taimanov (no Bb5+ with white's pawn still on c4 :) ). Anyone use this move order (for the purpose of avoiding the Taimanov or for any other reason)? Are there any major drawbacks to this move order that makes it not the main line? I'm starting to like the look of the Benoni again (after complaining about the lack of space, I'm starting to see how to appreciate the position anyway), and would like to avoid the Taimanov without having to have something like the Nimzo as a backup. The Hromadka System looks perfect as long as there's not some major glitch in it. |
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| Jun-13-06 | | Bartleby: I'm an enthusiastic Benoni player. Sometimes I get mauled badly (same with the Dutch), but other times I get very dynamic counterplay of the likes that black can't get out of stolid, boring stuff like the Orthodox Defence and the Slav. I'm not afraid of facing The Flick-Knife variation. The Benoni isn't for chessplayers who walk on eggshells in the opening. After Bb5+ Nfd7, black continues with customary castling and Re8, then ...Na6 ...Nc7 ...a6 ...Rb8 & a ...b5 push. Sometimes I'll employ the Old Benoni without the trading off of e-pawns. Some of these positions can take a Benko-like favor at an opportune moment. In one tournament I had the good fortune to meet (and play in the final round) Emory Tate. In an early round I played one of Tate's pupils as black and he employed the Czech Benoni. I was shocked at how much trouble I got into from such a locked and cramped Houdini-looking opening and was lucky to draw. Later when I spoke to Tate he revealed that he'd been employing the Czech Benoni in his games and teaching its finer points to its students! "The Czech Benoni?!?! Who on earth *plays* that anymore?" "Exactly! They never expect it while they're slowly being crushed!" |
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| Aug-17-06 | | ganstaman: So as exciting as the Benoni can be, some players with the white pieces get this idea of just boring their opponents into resignation. 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. e3/Nf3 :( Why won't they push their d-pawn?!?! I basically just continued developing with ...g6 and ...Bg7 and O-O, giving my opponent as many chances as possible to play d5. But at some point, I have to take action. So do I play ...cxd4, or ...e6 and ...d5, or something else? Also, I recently played the black side of 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Bf4. Does that move change anything, or can I still just play the Benoni as if nothing was different? |
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| Aug-17-06 | | ganstaman: Hmmm, so it was tried once, but things get weird soon. Y Grodzensky vs J Vetter, 1999 |
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| Aug-30-06 | | Stevens: <ganstaman> i play the Benoni as black and discovered that often people play the move order : Opening Explorer to avoid the Taimanov. The Taimanov involves white playing f4 right? In this line (above) white normally plays Nf3 which prevents this move. It is also very rare for white to play Bb5 in this line. |
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| Aug-30-06 | | yanez: <ganstaman> against 3.Nf3 try 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Nb5 Bc5 |
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| Aug-30-06 | | sixfeetunder: <yanez>What about 6. Nd6+?. It is better to play 5...d5 6.cd Bc5, thats an interesting gambit. |
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| Aug-30-06 | | AgentRgent: <ganstaman: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. e3/Nf3> If 3. Nf3 then I play 3...cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 (Hoping for the foolish 5. Nxc6) then proceed with g6, Bg7 and white will eventually lose a tempo with the knight or play Nxc6 bxc6 which is positionally good for black. vs. 3. e3 this usually indicates they want to play the Colle. I play b6 in case of a later dxc5, but also preparing Ba6 after the f1 bishop moves (often waiting till white plays 0-0 so the bishop can't retreat to c2), trading off this important piece of the Colle attack. |
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| Aug-30-06 | | RookFile: So, agent, 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. Nf3 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 g6 6. e4 d6 7. Be2 Bg7 8. Be3 is the Maroczy bind Sicilian. I like to play it from either color. Sometimes white plays a move like Nc2, but he is under no obligation to do so. And he never plays Nxc6 allowing bxc6. |
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| Aug-30-06 | | AgentRgent: <RookFile: So, agent, 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. Nf3 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 g6 6. e4 d6 7. Be2 Bg7 8. Be3 is the Maroczy bind Sicilian.> Indeed it is, though I like 6...Bg7 more than ...d6 <I like to play it from either color.> This is likely not true for very many players who open 1.d4 however! |
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| Aug-30-06 | | ganstaman: <Stevens> In that line, black doesn't avoid the Taimanov at all. White can simply play 6.e4 instead of 6.Nf3, and then follow up with f4 and Bb5+. If black actually wants to avoid the Taimanov, he either can't play the Benoni against 3.Nc3, or has to play something like the Hromadka System, or has to play an early a6 or Nd7 or Bd7 (all of which don't seem to work so well and just invite a difficult position). I'd like it if white played 6.Nf3, but without mind control it's not exactly something you can force. |
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| Aug-31-06 | | Stevens: <gangstaman> you're absolutely right. that line doesn't "force" white not to play the Taimanov. Let me dig around for the book that gave the line and see what it says. I'm sure it was MCO actually. |
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