|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 7 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-27-04 | | ongyj: Hi there:) I was replaying through the game, which was interesting. While I didn't really understand enough of opening theory on the caro-kann defence to fully understand the opening moves of this game, I think I've found an interesting move which needs validation. Upon 15...Na5 which really seems more of a suspect to me than anything, I prefer 16.dxc5 and now if Black doesn't reply properly and either 16...Qxc5 or 16...Nxc5 or 16...Bxc5 there is 17.b4 threatening to gain material. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this thanks:) Anyway it seems to me that White has fared much better out of the opening towards the midgame due to the ability to crack open the queenside. Good work there, PizzatheHut! Just a personal preference, I prefer 17.axb4, liberating the a file for White's Rook. 19.d5 looks really good. I think 22.Ng5 is worth consideration, threatening a fork and gaining of e6 pawn. (22.Ng5 Bxg5 23.Bxg5 ... after Black's Rook is chased off the d file, White can occupy it. It seems to me White is somewhat won, or at least advantageous, from here already. Notice that White's position after 22...Bxg5 is much much better, as after 21.Qxe6 fxe6 while White has superior pawn formation, Black has a good Bishop against White's bad one.) 22.Bb2 is somewhat conservative imho, but certainly it still serves the purpose of blocking the c pawn and protecting the e pawn, liberating White's f3 Knight. (23.Nd4 wins? I have my reservations. After all, winning the e6 pawn doesn't mean a win to me. Black now at least has counterattacking chances thanks to the c file pass pawn. For instance, 23...Na4! 24.Nxe6 Nxb2 25.Nxd8 Rxd8 ... While I prefer White's position, I don't think Black is completely lost here.) To sum up, it's an interesting game :) |
|
| Nov-27-04 | | ongyj: I'm sorry, but I think I thought u're White, but never mind there:) |
|
| Dec-06-04 | | Helloween: <PizzatheHut> Sorry it took me so long to respond to this game you've posted. I'm back now, and will be posting regularly on the site again. Please do not be offended by my analysis, as everything is seen from an objective viewpoint. 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 Nd7
<This plan involves setting up the so-called "Karpov Knights" at d7 and c6, to apply
pressure on White's centre. The immediate 5...c5 is another typical method of
equalizing.> 6.O-O Ne7 7.Nh4 Bg6 <A sharp struggle results after 7...Be4!? 8.Nd2 Nf5 9.Nhf3 c5 10.c3 Qb6.> 8.Nd2
c5 9.c3 Nc6 10.Nxg6 hxg6 11.Nf3 Be7 12.g3<White's idea is to play h2-h4, clamping down on the dark squares and preventing g6-g5. 12.Be3 is also played here.> 12...Qb6
13.h4 O-O-O?!N <13...Rc8 is safer. Black usually leaves his
King in the centre or castles short and plays for counterplay against White's centre or on the Queenside.> 14.Kg2 Kb8
15.a3! Na5?<15...f6 was to be preferred. Now White can open the a-file
decisively, and the game should effectively be over, but...> 16. b4 cxb4 17.cxb4?? <This is absolutely terrible and inconsistent! White is winning after 17.axb4 Nc4(17...
Nc6 18. b5 Na5 19. Qa4  )18. Bxc4 dxc4 19.d5 exd5 20.Be3 )>17... Nc4 18.Bxc4 dxc4 19.d5 exd5? <Again, 19...f6! should eliminate White's centre
and leave Black with few problems. Now, the board opens favourably for White.>
20.Qxd5 Qe6 21.Qxe6  fxe6 22.Bb2?< The wrong diagonal for the Bishop(22.Be3 ). Now Nb6 is allowed.>22...Nb6 23. Ng5?? <A terrible move that had no purpose. White rids himself of his main
e6-pawn attacker, gives himself doubled pawns and frees up Black's position
all in one move! After your suggestion of 23.Nd4?, Pizza, Black can make use of the Bishop's
terrible position on b2 with the forced continuation 23...Na4! 24.Nxe6 Nxb2 25.Nxd8 Rxd8  (because of the passed c-pawn). Instead, 23.Rad1!  retains a slight advantage for White. The Bishop can
now answer Na4 with Bc1 without blocking in the Queen's Rook.>23...Bxg5 24.hxg5 Nd5 25.Rac1 Rc8 26.Bc3 Rh5 27.f4??<White is still in dire straights after 27.Bd2 c3 28.Bf4 Rc4 > 27... Ne3+<The rest is academic.> I hope the two main things you get out of the analysis of this game are that
<1.> 15...Na5? was not only tactically refutable, but inconsistent with your plan of 13...0-0-0. 15...f6 and central/Kingside action were the way to go.
<2.> 23.Nd4? would not have won for White, but rather simply have exchanged 2 pieces for a Rook and a pawn, leaving Black with a better endgame. Train yourself not to give up hope and assume things like "He just played 23.Nd4. The e6-pawn's gone, I'm toast." Instead, tenaciously drum up counterplay and find good continuations like 23...Na4!(after 23.Nd4?). |
|
| Dec-06-04 | | PizzatheHut: <Helloween> I appreciate the analysis very much. I'm not offended by it in the least, rather I see it as a learning tool. If I play sucky moves, I deserve to get called out :) |
|
Dec-07-04
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: PizzatheHut, you think like none other than Capablanca, who said that he learned more from his losses than his wins. Now if only we could *play* like Capablanca... |
|
| Dec-12-04 | | azaris: Something I came up with. As you know, the Advance Variation can get nasty after 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nc3 e6 5. g4 Bg6 6. h4!? h5 7. g5. Here I have the idea of playing 7...Qb6 immediately. This seems quite annoying for White since it stops many developing ideas and practically forces Nf3, which is a second rate placement for the king knight. Furthermore, it will be a while before White can safely play O-O-O and after playing Nd7 it seems Black will happily castle and achieve equality. What do you think? |
|
| Dec-12-04 | | drukenknight: it makes sense, and I bet there are a lot of transpoitions or at least similar games with that in it. Most strong players w/ black will get that Q activated and soon. Often they do it after piece exchange. In your line there is so much material still on the board anythign can happen and its hard to comment on. Why not play 20 or 30 times on a blitz internet site and post some of the traps and such that you find. What else can be said? |
|
| Dec-31-04 | | ongyj: I can't believe it, I've decided to include the caro-Kann defence in my repetoire after all! :) It's amazing how fast people change their minds, LOL.
Anyway, to Azaris, I find the mentioned line very interesting. From what I can see, I recommend 8.Nge2 upon which 9.Nf4 threatens to wreck Black. Does it look better than 8.Nf3 in your opinion? Anyone care to comment and/or criticise please? Thank you, and hereby wish you a Happy New Year! |
|
| Dec-31-04 | | ongyj: In addition, I think this is one way in which Black stands better: 1.e4 c6
2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.g4 Be4 5.f3 Bg6 6.h4 h5 7.e6 Qd6 8.exf7+ Bxf7 9.Ne2 Qf3!? Comments and criticisms anyone? Thanks:) |
|
| Dec-31-04 | | whiskeyrebel: Hey Ongyi...I follow your line up to 9...Qf3; must be a typo..that's not a legal move. There's a few moves to consider....maybe a bold 9...e5 to open up the position more. |
|
| Dec-31-04 | | azaris: <9...Qf3; must be a typo..that's not a legal move.> The Leaping Queen Defense! That should show the Advance Variation playing weenies. |
|
| Dec-31-04 | | ongyj: sorry for that, I meant 9...Qf6 of course :( |
|
| Mar-17-05 | | Gazman5: I always play the Caro-Kann against e4 and have a good tournament record with it. However I have been unhappy with my position after the Bf5 advance as white's kingside attack seems to be very logical and easy for him to play. I have succomed to some unpleasant Knight sacs on e6 and f7 in this variation. Therefore I decided to switch to the Botvinnik-Carls variation: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5. I have found it excellent in Blitz games....far too many opponents play 4.c3 against it, which is much weaker than dxc5. I decided to look in the database for games since 2001 using the 3...c5 variation and came up with some interesting facts. Of 117 games from 2001 onwards, in which 3...c5 was played, white won 42, black 33 and 42 draws, giving black a respectable 46%. Of these games, 23 saw white playing an inferior move to 4.dxc5, mainly centering around c3/Nf3 ideas, yet in these inferior lines, black scored a very poor 39%, resulting that Black's score after 4.dxc5 since 2001 has been around 48%, an excellent score. Black's 2 good replies to 4.dxc5 are 4...e6 and 4...Nc6. I have always preferred the e6 line, yet the figures seem to favour Nc6: of 39 games in which e6 was played, white won 15 and black 13, with 11 draws, giving black a 47% score. In 35 games following Nc6, white won 11, black 12, with 12 draws, a black score of 51%. Surprisingly, the quiet looking variation 4.dxc5 e6 5.Nf3 Bxc5 is causing black a few problems, the most recent 4 games all being white wins. After Nc6, the most popular continuation is Bb5 e6, and crucially, black has the upper hand in this variation, scoring 52%, with 8 wins for white, 9 for black and 6 draws. I for one will now be playing 3...c5 against the advanced as, if nothing else, it seems to be a variation which produces a lot of results, for both white and black :) |
|
| Mar-17-05 | | Gazman5: In fact, following 4...e6, there are 59 games, from which black scored 47% |
|
| Mar-24-05 | | refutor: what's the big deal about 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Be3? it is one of the most popular lines at the GM level...sure it's prophylactic against Black's ...c5 but does that make it better than others? |
|
| Apr-02-05 | | ongyj: Personally I feel that there's nothing inferior about 4.c3 to 4.dxc5 in the above line mentioned. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 holds White's central pawns whereas 4.dxc5 makes White's pawns vulnerable. Also, with 4.c3 White may try to make things go into a French: Advance variaiton with 1 move up(Black cost a move with 1...c6 then 3...c5). Of course I may overlook some positional compensations(like I always do) Criticisms please? Thanks:) |
|
| Apr-02-05 | | azaris: <what's the big deal about 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Be3? it is one of the most popular lines at the GM level> This surge in popularity seems to have come in 2002. Maybe an article came out or there was a notable game. Here is one of the early GM games where the line was employed: [Event "Julian Borowski-A 4th"]
[Site "Essen"]
[Date "2002.05.16"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Zvjaginsev,Vadim"]
[Black "Dautov,Rustem"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B12"]
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Be3 e6 5.Nd2 Nd7 6.c3 Qb6 7.b4 f6 8.Nb3 fxe5
9.dxe5 Qc7 10.f4 Nh6 11.Nf3 Be7 12.Be2 0-0 13.0-0 b6 14.Nbd4 c5 15.Nxf5 Nxf5 16.Bd2 a5 17.a3 axb4 18.axb4 Qc6 19.Bd3 g6 20.b5 Qb7 21.c4 Rxa1 22.Qxa1 Nd4 23.Qd1 Ra8 24.Nxd4 cxd4 25.Qg4 Kg7 26.Qxe6 Nc5 27.Qh3 Ra2 28.f5 Rxd2 29.f6+ Kg8 30.Bxg6 hxg6 31.Qh6 Bf8 32.Qxg6+ Bg7
33.f7+ 1-0
Nice finish! White dominates on the dark squares. |
|
| Apr-02-05 | | tex: <ongyj> In Caro-Kann Black doesn't suffer from French Bad Bishop problem. That's the positional compensation. |
|
| Apr-02-05 | | dragon40: <what's the big deal about 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Be3? it is one of the most popular lines at the GM level> Well, a couple of general thoughts and observations of the 4. Be3 move as well as the Advance Variation of the Caro-Kann.
I have been using the Caro-Kann for over 20 years in OTB, postal, and E-Mail games and I would never for once consider switching openings just becasue of the Advance Variation. It does pose its own unique challenges for the black pieces, but I think they can be dealt with and it is possible for the Black pieces to battle it out on even ground with the White pieces in any Variation he may choose in the Advance. Lately, I have found that 3..Qb6 or a combination of an early...c5 and ..Qb6 can often throw white back and at least give us players for the black pieces a good, fighting chance. Also, do not rule out < Dudley> <or play something really strange like 3.e5 g6!? > this can also work out well particularly if White underestimates the move. I do not see the recent Kramnik-Leko match scaring many CK Players away...it was just one of those games where the players were out of "book" early and Leko's nerves got the beter of him, but I sure do not thnk the choice of Kramnik's opening variation nor Leko's choice of playing the Caro-Kann was the reason for that games outcome. OK, enough of that ramble!
4. Be3 seems to have one major goal and that is to totally discourage black's major break in the Advance variation: The eventual advance of the C Pawn to c5. the move has not been played much before 2002 as pointed out by <azaris> and it has no better or worse merits than the other variations White has at his disposal. I'd be tempted to play a rapid ...Qb6 against this, reminding White that his QSide and dark squares can also be a weakness early out and he needs to make necessary adjustments if he wishes to hold back that c5 push by black.
Just as with any variation, each player is going to use the variation/sub-variation that they feel comfortable with and use regardless of what theroy and the GMs think. And if the 4.Be3 variation really worries anyone, try the variation mentioned by <Gazman5> 1.e4 c6; 2.d4 d5; 3.e5 c5!? This will perhaps, take some of the worry put of having to face 4. Be3 and I do not think that this variation is as bad as its reputation is. Again, we all have our likes and dislikes, but the Advance Variation is here to stay...and it is up to the true believers of the CK like us to do our best to make it no beter or worse than any other variation for the Black pieces in this opening.
As an observation, isn't it interesting how variations come in and out of vogue according to high profile games, win or lose?! If Leko would have won against Kramnik's 4.h4 in the last game of their WC Match, then who knows how much that would have had the Chess World commenting on the inefectiveness of that variation or the need to go back to the drawing board for WHITE in that variation:) |
|
| Apr-02-05 | | whiskeyrebel: I don't see what the big deal is about 3.e5...let's rename it the "boogeyman" variation. There is no knockout line for white here unless black plays into his or her hands. |
|
| Apr-08-05 | | ongyj: I hope I'm not the culprit for the glorification of White in the advance but it seems that I am:( I'm sorry for that past post when I was yet familiar with the Caro-Kann defence. Now my repetoire revolves around Centre counter, Alekhine's defence, and occasionally experiments with the Sicilian and Caro-Kann (I'm a devoted believer to the Symmetry theory that discouraged me from playing anything symmetrical so 1...e5 is not my style against 1.e4) Anyway, now I find caro-Kann rock solid. With little positional problems White has quite a problem finding a target to aim. In fact I find it much more comfortable than French defence(Oops, hope the proud practicioners don't hear this:) The only problem, or I should phrase it as personal dislike, is in fact 'exchange variations' eg. French: exchange. In the caro-Kann the problem I dislike is Panov: Botvinnik attack. But again at least it doesn't end up at a symmetrical position which I DISLIKE(almost to the extent of hatred:) In the Caro-Kann I find the Panov: Botvinnik difficult to play as it has different feel from conventional caro-Kann lines. Hope someone, perhaps those faithful Caro-Kann practicioners who'd posted above can enlighten me in this aspect. Thanks:) |
|
| Apr-09-05 | | whiskeyrebel: Oddly enough I have a good success rate with black against the Panov-Botvinnik although I find it to be dull aesthetically compared to the modern for example (a long time opening favorite of mine). Usually my positions blossom after 20-25 moves or so. I've learned to enjoy the relative dullness although I'm sure it's not for everybody. |
|
| Apr-09-05 | | schnarre: <whiskeyrebel>Whatever works! |
|
| May-28-05 | | ongyj: I have a question in one of the variations. 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.Nf3 Why the most natural response is not 6...h6, as if anymove else White threatens 7.Ne5 and/or 7.Nh4 threatening to trade the Bishop. Thanks for the reply:) |
|
| May-28-05 | | azaris: <ongyj> The most natural (and played) move is 6...Nd7, which stops Ne5 as you note. If 7.Nh4!? then 7...e6 8.Nxg6 hxg6 but Black doesn't need to castle kingside as in many variations his king is quite safe in the center. Also, the knight moves have cost quite a bit of time and it's Black who has the semi-open h-file. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 7 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
|
|
|
Kibitzing
