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Dutch, with c4 & Nc3 (A85)
1 d4 f5 2 c4 Nf6 3 Nc3

Number of games in database: 1327
Years covered: 1836 to 2023
Overall record:
   White wins 39.4%
   Black wins 36.7%
   Draws 23.9%

Popularity graph, by decade

Explore this opening  |  Search for sacrifices in this opening.
With the White Pieces With the Black Pieces
Marc Narciso Dublan  10 games
Aleksey Dreev  9 games
Ivan Farago  9 games
Vladimir Malaniuk  28 games
Pavel Potapov  20 games
Anna Muzychuk  10 games
NOTABLE GAMES [what is this?]
White Wins Black Wins
Sakaev vs Kramnik, 1989
Topalov vs F Vallejo Pons, 2014
Staunton vs Horwitz, 1846
Glucksberg vs Najdorf, 1929
V Litvinov vs Veresov, 1958
L Piasetski vs V Kovacevic, 1977
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 page 1 of 54; games 1-25 of 1,327  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. G Walker vs Saint-Amant 0-1431836Casual gameA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
2. C Jaenisch vs von der Lasa 1-0501842BerlinA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
3. C Jaenisch vs von der Lasa ½-½351842BerlinA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
4. F Laigle vs P Michaels  0-1451845Laigle - MichaelsA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
5. Staunton vs Horwitz  1-0541846Staunton - HorwitzA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
6. Staunton vs Horwitz 1-0121846Staunton - HorwitzA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
7. Staunton vs Horwitz ½-½711846Staunton - HorwitzA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
8. Saint-Amant vs Horwitz  0-1301846Casual gameA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
9. G W Medley vs Bird 1-0361849Ries' Divan TournamentA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
10. M van 't Kruijs vs F G Heijmans 1-0451851AmsterdamA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
11. C Messemaker vs M M Coopman  0-1281851AmsterdamA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
12. C Messemaker vs M M Coopman  ½-½381851AmsterdamA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
13. Staunton vs Horwitz 0-1781851LondonA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
14. E Williams vs Staunton 1-0791851Staunton - WilliamsA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
15. Harrwitz vs de Riviere 1-0251856ParisA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
16. Harrwitz vs de Riviere  0-1351856ParisA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
17. B Wolff vs S Leow  ½-½421856BerlinA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
18. R Brien vs Falkbeer ½-½251858BirminghamA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
19. Harrwitz vs Kolisch 0-1521859Casual gameA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
20. N Marache vs W Richardson  1-0471860Morphy Chess Rooms Free tA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
21. K de Heer vs Anderssen  1-0241861UnknownA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
22. E Schallopp vs G Neumann  0-1351864BerlinA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
23. De Vere vs G Neumann  ½-½631867ParisA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
24. De Vere vs G Neumann 0-1481867Dundee CongressA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
25. G Neumann vs Paulsen 0-1531870Baden-BadenA85 Dutch, with c4 & Nc3
 page 1 of 54; games 1-25 of 1,327  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  

Kibitzer's Corner
Jun-13-03  sick boy: I would like to play a game with one of you guys so would you be kind enough to play a game to see where I stand at in the game
Jun-13-03  maa: I do want a play a game with u my email is
Apr-20-04  PaulKeres: I just played a game going out of this database at move 7 for white, going as follows: 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 d6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. Qc2 g6 6. Nf3 Bg7 <7. e3>

If anyone is interested I can post the rest of the game. It was a good one. I won't tell you who won, but who do you think has the edge after these moves?

Apr-20-04  humblespirit: paulkeres, if you don't mind,please post the game. What are your thoughts on the playing 2.Nc3
Apr-20-04  PaulKeres: I'm actually a King Pawn player, but like to try different things sometimes, so I was a bit out of my waters here. I shall post it but would really appreciate your comments on it. Neither I or my opponent are that good at chess, so there will be I'm sure plenty of blunders, but the end is interesting I believe.

As I say, I am not qualfied to give much advice on d4 games, but I usually c4 is played before Nc3, which wouldn't be possible with 2.Nc3, I guess then you might be looking at a (Richter-)Veresov type of game (D01), ie 1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5, thus here instead <1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 (pass) 3. Bg5>? Why what are your plans with 2.Nc3 humblespirit?

Apr-20-04  PaulKeres: 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 d6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. Qc2 g6 6. Nf3 Bg7 7. e3 0-0 8. h3 b6 9. Bd3 Bb7 10. g4? fxg4?!(Bxf3) 11. 0-0-0 Bxf3 12. hxg4 Bxd1 13. Qxd1 c5 14. Rh4 Qc8 15. Bh6 Qb7 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. d5 Rhe8 18. f4 e5 19. f5 gxf5 20. Bxf5 Rh8 21. Qc2 Nf8 22. g5 Ne8 23. Qh2 b5 24. Nxb5 a6 25. Nxd6 Nxd6 26. Qxe5+ Kg8 27. Qxd6 Rb8 28. b3 a5 29. Qe5 a4 30. g6 axb3 31. Be6+ Nxe6 32. Qxe6+ Kf8 33. g7+ Kxg7 34. Rg4+ Kf8 35. Rf4+ Kg7 36. Qg4+ Kh6 37. Rf6#
Apr-20-04  humblespirit: I am in all aspects a patzer. 1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5, well my misguided idea is to exchange the bishop for knight. And attempt to weaken the black kingside with pawn advances h4,g4. my chess knowlege is limited thus my insight into the line is rather non-existent.

I look forward to your input to my misguided schemes.

Sep-08-04  Giancarlo: <humbleSpirit>
as a regular on playing Dutch as black, if you really want to exchange the black knight on f6 via g5, your line:

<1.d4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5>

is in accurate. 3..d6 and if White exchanges 4.Bxf6 I always find it to my advantage as Black. If you really want to go for the exchange, here's what I suggest:

<1.d4 f5 2.Bg5!>
Now here's the following:

If <2..nf6> then you can succesfully exchange and double black's pawns and then play g4 and h4 if you want. All though not reccomended. Work the Pawn majority out first.

Obvioulsy Black can't play <2..d6>

<2..h6>, this I have analyzed. Now Black hopes to run off the White Bishop so nf6 is possible. But..

<3.Bh4!? g5 4.Bg3! f4? 5.e3!>

And obviously advantage White!
My how the tables have turned!

How to decline it in a bit...

Sep-08-04  Giancarlo: Following my previous post:

<3.Bh4!? g5 4.Bg3!>

Now <4..f4> is wrong as proved, so it looks like Black has a terribly exposed King side. How should Black continue?

I suggest that this isn't as bad as it seems, as now Black has achieved his objective. He is able to play nf6


Now this forces Black to play a variation of the Leningrad system, which I think is the weakest of all the Dutch systems, but that doesn;t mean it is neccesairly bad. The only problem is if you don't like Leningrad, then White will most likely persue the line:

<1.d4 f5 2.Bg5>

If you want to play nf6 in this line while avoiding doubled pawns, there really is no choice but to play the above line. Thus, there is the classic way to defend this:

<1.d4 e6>

The only problem with this is you have to be willing to play French. If you don't, it will be hard to play the Dutch if you don't like the Leningrad. So my advice is, get to know solid thoery in the Leningrad System, because it is the base of Dutch play.

The 2 other lines in the Dutch seem solid:


<1.d4 f5 2.c4 nf6 3.nc3 e6 4.nf3 be7 5.g3 0-0 6.0-0 d5>


<1.d4 f5 2.c4 nf6 3.nc3 e6 4.nf3 be7 5.g3 0-0 6.0-0 d6>

The only difference being the last move of Black.


Dec-04-04  refutor: why not 4. ...Bb4 instead and go for an improved nimzo?
Dec-08-04  humblespirit: <GianCarlo>,

I greatly appreciate your input. But 2.Bg5 is not my style. The leningrad is too complicated a system for me. Why can't black play 2...d6 after 2.Bg5?

I don't play the dutch, i favour the semi-slav.

Dec-09-04  Poisonpawns: On 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5 the move 2..g6 was not mentioned, and it is very popular among dutch players.Plus the Leningrad is prob the best system to play in the Dutch once you learn it. Here are two good games that deal with the systems discussed above that are good for blackSmyslov vs Beliavsky, 1986 this gem Zsuzsa Polgar vs Beliavsky, 1991

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