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| Apr-20-22 | | raymondhow: Argh. So pleased with myself for finding the game move, then searching forever for the great follow-up that wasn't there. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | fokers13: Qc8-a6 is a nice little repositioning.Found many other continuations,including the text move but they didn't seem to lead to much. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | et voila: Surprised that I got the first and the second moves, but then white didn't seem to garner much. The passed A pawn proved decisive. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | MisterFreeeze53: I couldn't believe that blunder. LOL. I didn't see the Qa6 pin move until a bit later. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | raymondhow: < Surprised that I got the first and the second moves > If you mean you got the game moves, then you didn't get the puzzle. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | agb2002: White can win material with 39.Qc8+ Kh7 40.Qa6: A) 40... Qxf2 41.Qxb5 Qh4+ 42.Kg1 Qxd4+ 43.Kf1 and the king will elude the perpetual check. B) 40... Rxe5 41.Qxf1 Rxh5+ 42.Kg1 but White would have to work hard if Black manages to build a fortress with a5, Rd5, g6, Kg7, etc. |
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Apr-20-22
 | | Teyss: I missed the <39.Qc8+ Kh7 40.Qa6> line but calculated the <39.Rc5 Rb8 40.d5> line all the way to move 55. Hem. <agb2002> has a point: can Black build a fortress in his B line? According to <mel gibson> no, depth 48 is deep enough. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | saturn2: The white queen moves with tempo to a6. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | cocker: After losing his rook, Black has lots of checks and wins most of White's pawns, but White should still win in theory. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | whiteshark: So I'm only a player of Mame's strenght. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Stanco: I failed to solve it, I also played Rc5 |
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| Apr-20-22 | | whiteshark: * It'll take <strength> to correct it |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Socrates2: Not really much to talk about. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | TheaN: <39.Qc8+ Kh7 40.Qa6 +-> is not <that> obvious, and apparently Mamedyarov missed it. I have to admit that I underestimated 40....Rxe5 41.Qxf1 Rxh5 42.Kg1 +-, but this is a typical non-fortress position due to a weak a-pawn and the option otherwise for White to give back material and create a center passer: in the situation of 42....Rd5 43.Qc4 a5 44.Kf1 g6 45.Ke2 Kg7 46.Ke3:
click for larger view
The concept for White here is simple, prevent Black from staying on any other fifth rank squares than d5 by playing up the king side, Ke4 and Qxd5. The issue is too much material remains for Black to salvage; with a d-passer Black's toast. However, are we ignoring Black's other option? 40....Qxf2?! 41.Qxb5 Qh4+ 42.Kg1 Qxd4+ 43.Kf1 Qf4+ 44.Ke1 Qg3+ 45.Kd2 Qxg2+ 46.Kc3 +-
click for larger view
Mind that losing all the pawns in this manner is forced as else White won't run out of perpetual. I don't find this very trivial either. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | mel gibson: This site's security certificate ran out today
according to my Norton security. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Hercdon: Shak gets shanked |
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| Apr-20-22 | | jrredfield: < This site's security certificate ran out today > Same here. |
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Apr-20-22
| | Teyss: <mel gibson> <jrredfield> Same here. Not the first time. <TheaN> Brilliant analysis, thanks. As for Mamedyarov missing a win and then a draw, the format was rapid. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Lambda: It's worth having a closer look at the Stockfish line provided by mel gibson. It doesn't see white actually breaking the fortress, rather, it shows white moving back and forth pretty much randomly until black abandons the fortress for no reason, presumably due to some low ply at end of line effect. |
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Apr-20-22
 | | whittaker: I stared at this position for about 10 minutes. 39. Qc8+ Kh7, yeah so what. I looked at 39 d5, 39 Rc5, 39 Rxe6, they didn't seem to do anything. Then I looked at the diagonal line-up of the Black R and Q with the loose Black Q. I thought, if it was legal to play 39. Qa6, I could win the rook. Finally I was like oh, duh, Qc8+ and Qa6. Lesson: Sometimes you can even look at illegal moves to come up with ideas in a position. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | TheaN: <Lambda> may have a point. What I considered wrongly was that Black has no play on the king side because he has to confine himself into the fortress. In contrary, after a well-timed h5, White either creates an additional stakeout for the rook or blocks play on both wings. 40....Rxe5 41.Qxf1 Rxh5+ 42.Kg1 a5 Black has already won the crucial h-pawn to create a majority and locked the queen side in place. After some back and forth Black achieves the following: 43.Qc4 Rd5 44.f3 g6 45.Kf2 Kg7 46.Ke3:
click for larger view
Now, Black can pretty much sit back until White tries to break. 46....Rg5 and now what? 47.g4 h5 locks in the fortress position even more, as 48.gxh5 Rxh5= is in fact a draw, but ignoring the h-pawn doesn't fair much better. Doubt either player saw any of this, but inclined to say the Q vs R is actually drawn. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | TheaN: I don't think Black can sit still however. White has one practical try, not on d5, but on a5. Because it happens so far away from the king side, Black needs to achieve a king side majority that's five moves away from queening, not allowing White to simplify to the pawn ending. Once White passes with his king over to the queen side, Black will have to move the h-pawn up and threaten the king side pawns in order to create a passer or allow a breakthrough. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | mel gibson: <Apr-20-22 Lambda: It's worth having a closer look at the Stockfish line provided by mel gibson. It doesn't see white actually breaking the fortress, rather, it shows white moving back and forth pretty much randomly until black abandons the fortress for no reason, presumably due to some low ply at end of line effect.> There must be a reason.
I show the full unedited version of Stockfish
rather than cut it off at say a depth of 15 or maybe 20.
Should I post less depth? |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Brenin: Like <Lambda> I played through <mel gibson>'s Stockfish line, but because <CG> was unavailable to me for most of today I couldn't post until now. Following on from 39 Qc8+ Kh7 40 Qa6 Rxe5 41 Qxf1 Rxh5+ 42 Kg1 a5, etc. Black builds a fortress with Ps on a5, e6, f7, g7 and h5, and for nearly 30 moves his R oscillates between d5 and f5, and his K shuffles about among his protective Ps, while White slowly moves his K to d3 while his Q accumulates air miles all over the board with no discernible effect on the game. It is not clear whether White has a winning strategy. Suddenly, with White's f-pawn unprotected for the first time, Black plays the inexplicably greedy 67 ... Rxf2, leaving his a-pawn unprotected, so that White can open up the position with 68 d5, and a few moves later play Qxa5 and create a passed b-pawn. A noncommittal 67th move by Black would have held the fortress intact, so I'm not convinced by the verdict of <score for White +6.65 depth 48> that White has a win in that line. |
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| Apr-20-22 | | Lambda: <mel gibson> There's nothing wrong with your Stockfish posting. The reason is that computers are bad at understanding fortress positions. |
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