chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Ludger Keitlinghaus vs Tibor Fogarasi
Budapest FSGM March (1996), rd 2
Sicilian Defense: Alapin Variation. Barmen Defense (B22)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 289 more games of T Fogarasi
sac: 20.Rxd6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can change the color of the light and dark squares by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page. Or, you can change it with the "SETTINGS" link in the lower right.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <aginis: 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?>

Then 20.Re6!, threatening Rxe8+ and Qxb7#.

Oct-30-08  The Low Aviator: Wow... 18. Rc6 was crushing, followed by 17. ... Qxf7!
Oct-30-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <aginis 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?>

20. Re6 looks pretty terminal to me. Attacks the Re8 and uncovers the threat of mate on b7. Fritz 11 reckons that it is mate in 17 from here.

Oct-30-08  Shams: <aginis> 20.Nc4 looks tough to meet
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <AlaskaksalA><I am just trying to understand when to consider this (or any)puzzle 'solved.' >

That's been the topic of several spirited discussions over the years. :-)

The administrator's answer is "find the best move (or line of moves)".

Of course, there can be some debate over how one defines "best", or even if it indeed has a consistent definition that works in all cases.

In one sense, it's a moot point, since some people solve it in their heads, some set it up on a board (real or virtual) and move pieces around. Besides that, we're (almost) all anonymous and there's nobody keeping score and nobody to make sure we're not "cheating".

So, IMHO, you're free to make your own definition! Your definition should be whatever makes puzzle solving enjoyable for you (that is, after all, the real goal). Naturally, if you make your definition more demanding, it becomes more difficult, but also more rewarding in terms of improving your chess skills.

Here's mine: I analyze the puzzle in my head (as if I arrived at this position OTB). I decide what the best possible outcome should be (win or sometimes draw), and then try to find a way to make that outcome fairly obvious. That is, I try to bring clarity to the position.

I am generally not so concerned about finding the "fastest" solution. A win is a win, whether it's mate in 5 or mate in 25 (and sometimes the longer mate is easier to see, more fun, and provokes a quicker resignation). When done, I write up my experience, for better or worse.

If I feel like I failed to solve a puzzle I should have solved, I add the puzzle to my collection: Game Collection: Puzzles I should have solved, but didn't :-(

Oct-30-08  yoozum: I have to be honest and say that I completely missed this one.
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <AlaskaksalA> Oh I get it now.

Palindrome! :-D

Oct-30-08  YouRang: Or should I say, PALINdrome!
Oct-30-08  emonys: For anyone interested, go to wholesalechess.com and look at their daily chess puzzle, What a great puzzle, see if you come close to solving it.
Oct-30-08  number 23 NBer: 18 Rc6 looks strong, as the queen has nowhere to go: 18 ... Qa5; 19 Rc8+! R or Kxc8; 20 Qxb7#
Oct-30-08  actinia: I missed the ... b6 line and cannot count this as a correctly solved puzzle for me because over the board I might have responded to b6 with Nc4 or some other line.
Oct-30-08  actinia: basically I half-assed the solution, which is not at all the point of these exercises
Oct-30-08  ruzon: I thought that 18. ♖c6 b7 19. ♕xf7 would be followed by ♕b7 and I couldn't find the proper response. But it all felt right. 19...♗d6 surprised me.
Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: < <zb2cr> wrote: [snip] Most puzzles here can be considered solved if you arrive at mate or a decisive material edge.>

To elaborate on <zb2cr>'s excellent advice, I define "a decisive material edge" as the equivalent of a clear P ahead. This definition is essentially Kotov's advice for terminating calculation of the variations, and some of the puzzles result in just a P advantage. Some might disagree, but I consider such puzzles as quite legitimate.

Also, <zb2cr>, thanks for reminding me of the direct ways of breaking a attack on a piece: (1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.

I am taking notes :)

Oct-30-08  JG27Pyth: YouRang, (in re Alaskaksala):< Or should I say, PALINdrome> NICE!!!

Spouge in re zb2cr and the list of options when attacked -- <(1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.>

Isn't there an item (4)? Make more pressing counterthreat which demands reaction? (there should be a more succinct way to say this)

Oct-30-08  macphearsome: <JG27Pyth> & <al wazir>

ah, of course. thank you both.

Oct-30-08  Dr. J: <aginis: 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?> Surprisingly, you are one of only two commenters to even mention this line, which I consider the hardest defense to beat. <dzechiel> has already given the beautiful solution 20 Rc5 Qa6 21 Ra5 Qb6 22 Rb5. (This is a rather difficult line for a Wednesday. I wonder if <cg.com> missed it?)

A suggestion: always read dzechiel's comment before posting :-)

Oct-30-08  garrido: rook c6 is easy de see, but not wf7
game nice and intructive
Oct-30-08  garrido: ¿quisiera saber porquè no participan
latino parlante en estas paginas?
I LIKE KNOW BECAUSE NOT READER
SPAINS IN THIS PAGES?
sorry my bad inglish
garrido
Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: < <JG27Pyth> wrote: [snip] Spouge in re zb2cr and the list of options when attacked -- <(1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.>

Isn't there an item (4)? Make more pressing counterthreat which demands reaction?>

Hi, <JG27Pyth>. When you get beyond fantasizing about mere belligerent mutant albino penguins and achieve rapture, you too will find ways of defending yourself against the nitpickers that frequent this site.

My exact statement was: <thanks for reminding me of the <<>direct> ways of breaking a attack on a piece>.

You will note the presence of the weaselly word "direct" in the statement, a compositional technique I learned principally from negative experiences on chessgames.com :)

I felt unready to enumerate defenses to an attack. In spirit, you are quite correct, of course, so here is my best shot at defenses to an attack, in typical but not infallible order of desirability:

(A) counter-attack

(B) direct defense:

...insert my previous list...(1) (2) (3)

While we are at it, we should add (4) protect the attacked piece.

Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: Hi, <DrJ>. The variation is indeed more interesting than I expected. Toga II 1.3.1 gives

18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 20.Re6

Oct-30-08  Woody Wood Pusher: I saw 18.Rc6!,b6 19.Qxf7 but did not consider 19..Bd6 and only looked at 19..Be7 for some reason..

only half points today then I guess.

Oct-31-08  TheaN: 5/5

As I'm a bit late I'll just say I got it for once: I first reviewed 18.Rc6 b6 with 19.Qxf7 among others winning easily. I was stumped by 18.Rc6 Re8† 19.Kd1 Qa5 however so I put it away yesterday, until I now notice the brilliant hunt 20.Rc5! Qa6 21.Ra5! Qb6 22.Rb5 and Black is going to lose a piece.... his King.

Nov-05-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For the Thursday Oct 30, 2008 puzzle solution, White utilizes his pin on Black's King to play the deflection 18. Rc6! to create sufficient threats to set up a winning double attack in the final position.
Jun-30-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Remember the days when users used to post about CHESS? Looks to be about 65 posts in one day on this game. I cannot image that happening again under present circumstances.

The queen check and fork of a loose piece is one of the easiest, most useful, and least appreciated tactics in chess.

<patzer2> has been around a long time, having last posted during the 2021 world championship. We hope p2 is doing well.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
18. Rc6! leads to a deep double attack
from Double Attack by patzer2
Just some interesting bookmarked games
by Halfpricemidge
Sicilian Defense: Alapin Variation. Barmen Defense
from ALAPIN VARIATION by gambitfan
17. white to play
from artnova's miniaturas by artnova
Sicilian Defense: Alapin Variation. Barmen Defense
from PUZZLES OF THE DAY by gambitfan
Alapin 1-0 23 drag
from xfer's favorite games 2008 by xfer
18.?
from puzzles by zatara
30/10/08, 18. ?
from Chessgames Puzzles: Medium by ed gantro
Sicilian 2c3 Alapin. Barmen Def (B22) 1-0 Puzzle 18. ?
from yDecoy To-o, Deflection From, Remove Fredthebear by fredthebear
18.? (Thursday, October 30)
from Puzzle of the Day 2008 by Phony Benoni
18.? (October 30, 2008)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
Sicilian 2c3 Alapin. Barmen Def (B22) 1-0 Puzzle 18. ?
from Hammer the 6th Rank (Black hits 3rd Rank) III by fredthebear

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC