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Ludger Keitlinghaus vs Tibor Fogarasi
Budapest FSGM March (1996), rd 2
Sicilian Defense: Alapin Variation. Barmen Defense (B22)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <aginis: 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?>

Then 20.Re6!, threatening Rxe8+ and Qxb7#.

Oct-30-08  The Low Aviator: Wow... 18. Rc6 was crushing, followed by 17. ... Qxf7!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <aginis 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?>

20. Re6 looks pretty terminal to me. Attacks the Re8 and uncovers the threat of mate on b7. Fritz 11 reckons that it is mate in 17 from here.

Oct-30-08  Shams: <aginis> 20.Nc4 looks tough to meet
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <AlaskaksalA><I am just trying to understand when to consider this (or any)puzzle 'solved.' >

That's been the topic of several spirited discussions over the years. :-)

The administrator's answer is "find the best move (or line of moves)".

Of course, there can be some debate over how one defines "best", or even if it indeed has a consistent definition that works in all cases.

In one sense, it's a moot point, since some people solve it in their heads, some set it up on a board (real or virtual) and move pieces around. Besides that, we're (almost) all anonymous and there's nobody keeping score and nobody to make sure we're not "cheating".

So, IMHO, you're free to make your own definition! Your definition should be whatever makes puzzle solving enjoyable for you (that is, after all, the real goal). Naturally, if you make your definition more demanding, it becomes more difficult, but also more rewarding in terms of improving your chess skills.

Here's mine: I analyze the puzzle in my head (as if I arrived at this position OTB). I decide what the best possible outcome should be (win or sometimes draw), and then try to find a way to make that outcome fairly obvious. That is, I try to bring clarity to the position.

I am generally not so concerned about finding the "fastest" solution. A win is a win, whether it's mate in 5 or mate in 25 (and sometimes the longer mate is easier to see, more fun, and provokes a quicker resignation). When done, I write up my experience, for better or worse.

If I feel like I failed to solve a puzzle I should have solved, I add the puzzle to my collection: Game Collection: Puzzles I should have solved, but didn't :-(

Oct-30-08  yoozum: I have to be honest and say that I completely missed this one.
Oct-30-08  YouRang: <AlaskaksalA> Oh I get it now.

Palindrome! :-D

Oct-30-08  YouRang: Or should I say, PALINdrome!
Oct-30-08  emonys: For anyone interested, go to and look at their daily chess puzzle, What a great puzzle, see if you come close to solving it.
Oct-30-08  number 23 NBer: 18 Rc6 looks strong, as the queen has nowhere to go: 18 ... Qa5; 19 Rc8+! R or Kxc8; 20 Qxb7#
Oct-30-08  actinia: I missed the ... b6 line and cannot count this as a correctly solved puzzle for me because over the board I might have responded to b6 with Nc4 or some other line.
Oct-30-08  actinia: basically I half-assed the solution, which is not at all the point of these exercises
Oct-30-08  ruzon: I thought that 18. ♖c6 b7 19. ♕xf7 would be followed by ♕b7 and I couldn't find the proper response. But it all felt right. 19...♗d6 surprised me.
Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: < <zb2cr> wrote: [snip] Most puzzles here can be considered solved if you arrive at mate or a decisive material edge.>

To elaborate on <zb2cr>'s excellent advice, I define "a decisive material edge" as the equivalent of a clear P ahead. This definition is essentially Kotov's advice for terminating calculation of the variations, and some of the puzzles result in just a P advantage. Some might disagree, but I consider such puzzles as quite legitimate.

Also, <zb2cr>, thanks for reminding me of the direct ways of breaking a attack on a piece: (1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.

I am taking notes :)

Oct-30-08  JG27Pyth: YouRang, (in re Alaskaksala):< Or should I say, PALINdrome> NICE!!!

Spouge in re zb2cr and the list of options when attacked -- <(1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.>

Isn't there an item (4)? Make more pressing counterthreat which demands reaction? (there should be a more succinct way to say this)

Oct-30-08  macphearsome: <JG27Pyth> & <al wazir>

ah, of course. thank you both.

Oct-30-08  Dr. J: <aginis: 18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 how to continue?> Surprisingly, you are one of only two commenters to even mention this line, which I consider the hardest defense to beat. <dzechiel> has already given the beautiful solution 20 Rc5 Qa6 21 Ra5 Qb6 22 Rb5. (This is a rather difficult line for a Wednesday. I wonder if <> missed it?)

A suggestion: always read dzechiel's comment before posting :-)

Oct-30-08  garrido: rook c6 is easy de see, but not wf7
game nice and intructive
Oct-30-08  garrido: ¿quisiera saber porquè no participan
latino parlante en estas paginas?
sorry my bad inglish
Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: < <JG27Pyth> wrote: [snip] Spouge in re zb2cr and the list of options when attacked -- <(1) capture the attacker; (2) block the line; or (3) move the attacked piece.>

Isn't there an item (4)? Make more pressing counterthreat which demands reaction?>

Hi, <JG27Pyth>. When you get beyond fantasizing about mere belligerent mutant albino penguins and achieve rapture, you too will find ways of defending yourself against the nitpickers that frequent this site.

My exact statement was: <thanks for reminding me of the <<>direct> ways of breaking a attack on a piece>.

You will note the presence of the weaselly word "direct" in the statement, a compositional technique I learned principally from negative experiences on :)

I felt unready to enumerate defenses to an attack. In spirit, you are quite correct, of course, so here is my best shot at defenses to an attack, in typical but not infallible order of desirability:

(A) counter-attack

(B) direct defense:

...insert my previous list...(1) (2) (3)

While we are at it, we should add (4) protect the attacked piece.

Oct-30-08  johnlspouge: Hi, <DrJ>. The variation is indeed more interesting than I expected. Toga II 1.3.1 gives

18.Rc6 Re8+ 19.Kd1 Qa5 20.Re6

Oct-30-08  Woody Wood Pusher: I saw 18.Rc6!,b6 19.Qxf7 but did not consider 19..Bd6 and only looked at 19..Be7 for some reason..

only half points today then I guess.

Oct-31-08  TheaN: 5/5

As I'm a bit late I'll just say I got it for once: I first reviewed 18.Rc6 b6 with 19.Qxf7 among others winning easily. I was stumped by 18.Rc6 Re8† 19.Kd1 Qa5 however so I put it away yesterday, until I now notice the brilliant hunt 20.Rc5! Qa6 21.Ra5! Qb6 22.Rb5 and Black is going to lose a piece.... his King.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For the Thursday Oct 30, 2008 puzzle solution, White utilizes his pin on Black's King to play the deflection 18. Rc6! to create sufficient threats to set up a winning double attack in the final position.
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Remember the days when users used to post about CHESS? Looks to be about 65 posts in one day on this game. I cannot image that happening again under present circumstances.

The queen check and fork of a loose piece is one of the easiest, most useful, and least appreciated tactics in chess.

<patzer2> has been around a long time, having last posted during the 2021 world championship. We hope p2 is doing well.

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