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Saint Amant / Marie Florimond de Basterot vs Paul Morphy
Consultation game (1858), Paris FRA, Nov-??
Italian Game: Classical Variation. Greco Gambit Traditional Line (C54)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 72 times; par: 34 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-09-05  Boomie: <ckr> 14...♕f6 is as good as 14...♕d6. There is a nice variation for white.

12. ♖e1 ♘xd4 13. ♘xd4 ♕xd4 14. ♖e4 ♕f6 15. ♕f3 ♕xb2 16. ♗xf7+ ♖xf7 17. ♖e8+ ♖f8 18. ♖xf8+ ♔xf8 19. ♕xf4+

May-10-05  ckr: <Boomie> I'm no Morphy, but he may have played 12 ...Bxh3 or 12 ...Nxh3. Who knows how things would have ended up. I think Amant played Kh2 just so Morphy would not end up with a piece on h3. B or N didn't matter which, he was fearful of the situation. Morphy played both the board and the man.
May-10-05  Boomie: <ckr> There may be a lesson here for us all. When matched against a strong tactician, play aggressively. A passive move like Kh2 is like blood in the water to them.
May-13-05  ckr: <Boomie> The following is hard to follow if you don't paste it into a player, but there is an interesting line if black does not recapture with Qxd4, and instead proceeds to rip apart the white king's position rather than equalize material (something none of the engines would even consider)(there could be a devastating knight fork if black plays pxh3 after Bxh3) A bit hurried but I got to get to work.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 Bxd2+ 8.Nbxd2 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.O-O O-O 11.h3 Nf4 12.Kh2
( 12.Re1 Nxd4 13.Nxd4 Nxh3+
( 13...Bxh3 14.Re4
( 14.gxh3 Nxh3+ 15.Kh1
( 15.Kg2 Nf4+ 16.Kf3 Qxd4 17.Re4 Qxb2 18.Kxf4 Rad8 19.Re2 Qf6+ 20.Kg3 Qg5+ 21.Kf3 Rd4 22.Qg1 Rf4+ 23.Ke3 Rg4+ this line black has great advantage, I think? ) 15...Nxf2+ )
14...Qg5 15.Qf3 Qxg2+
( 15...Nxg2 16.Qxh3 Nf4+ 17.Qg3 Nh3+ 18.Kg2 Qxd2 19.Qxh3 c5 20.Rh1 Qg5+ 21.Rg4 Qxg4+ 22.Qxg4 cxd4 )
)
14.gxh3 Qg5+ 15.Kf1
( 15.Kh1 Bxh3 16.Rg1 Qh6 17.Rg2 Bxg2+
( 17...Bg4+ 18.Rh2 Qxh2+ 19.Kxh2 Bxd1 20.Rxd1 Rad8 21.Ne4 h5 ) 18.Kxg2 Qg5+ 19.Kf1 Rfe8 20.Qf3 )
15...Bxh3+ 16.Ke2 Rae8+ )
12...Nxd4 13.Nxd4 Qxd4 14.Qc2 Qd6 15.Kh1 Qh6 16.Qc3 Bf5 17.Kh2 Rad8 18.Rad1 Bxh3 19.gxh3 Rd3 20.Qxd3 Nxd3 21.Bxd3 Qd6+ 22.f4 Qxd3 0-1

Jul-07-05  notyetagm: A beautiful <interference> move that just wins instantly, 19 ... ♖d3!!. I had seen this position as a problem on the topic of interference in one of Chernev's tactics books but did not know that it came from a Morphy game.
Jul-07-05  fgh: I remember seeing this game in one book on tactics. I like the move 19. ... Rd3!!
May-06-07  wolfmaster: To B with a Saint is to lose.
May-06-07  Marmot PFL: I don't know why these players kept on challenging Morphy in open positions, especially players like white here who were poor tacticians. The Ruy Lopez or a queen pawn opening would be a much better choice.
May-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <I don't know why these players kept on challenging Morphy in open positions, especially players like white here who were poor tacticians.>

Poor St. Amant had been considered the leading player in the world before his defeat by Staunton in 1843. A little respect, please!

Sep-14-08  heuristic: 12.Kh2 is ugly, but not bad.
12.Kh2 Bf5 13.Re1 Qd6 14.Ne4 Bxe4 and the situation
is about equal to 12.Re1 Nxd4 13.Re4 Nde6 14.Bxe6 fxe6.

I think 13.Nxd4 giving up the pawn without a fight
is worse. 13.Nxd4 Qxd4 14.b3 c6 15.Nf3 Qf6 is not as
good as 13.Ne4 Be6 14.Rc1 Bxc4 15.Rxc4 Nde6.

15.Kh1 is a stinker, but PM drops the attack with
16...Bf5. He should played the R interpostion theme
now; 16...Rd8 17.Rae1 Bxh3 18.gxh3 Rd3 19.Qxd3 and
the game is over.

Still, 18...Bxh3 and 19...Rd3 is a pretty combination!

Jan-02-09  gauer: Who might the purported 2nd player have been given speculation as (just a wild guess - apologies if this is not whom the intials were really meant to stand for)? Perhaps Saint Amant thought that he needed to test a theory of a former French champion, Louis Charles Mahe De La Bourdonnais - died 1840 - 18 years prior to the Morphy tour of Cafe de la Regence region. Not sure what the "F" might stand for (another middle name - which might not have been too uncommon those days), & only noticed the similarity in the: ... M ... de (la) B(ourdonnais) pattern. It could be interesting to see whether the French Champion had much to say about this as a potential pet line at some Paris coffee-house.
Aug-17-12  Garech: Gorgeous Morphian Play!

Cheers,

-Garech

Oct-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  wwall: BCM, March, 1881, p. 65 says "In Morphy's games (Bohn's Edition, p. 232) there occurs the following position (after move 18) in a game played between Morphy, and St. Amant consulting with F. de L. (not M.F. de B.) Bohn's edition is from 1869, Morphy's Games by Lowenthal. The 1860 edition of Morphy's Games by Lowenthal also calls it a consultation game, but only identifies that White was St. Amant & Ally. So who is F. de L. or M.F. de B?
Oct-16-16  jnpope: The earliest source I've found so far gives initials for St. Amant's partner as: "F. de l'A." (source: Paul Morphy. Skizze aus der Schachwelt. Zweiter Theil., 1859, p28).

I've have always suspected that the amateur "F." was <de l'Angleterre> (de l'A.). Which would be: Mr. F. from England.

The Chess Monthly, Jan 1859, pp22-23, gives the game and identifies it as being against St. Amant and "another Parisian amateur". So perhaps a Paris native residing in England visiting France at the time of Morphy's visit?

That's as far as I've taken the matter... I shall add it to my list of unresolved questions (additions to the list grow faster than the subtractions!).

May-22-17  Jimmy720: I have analyzed this game. Any (constructive) criticism of my analysis is welcome.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Bd2 Bxd2+ 8. Nbxd2 d5 9. exd5 Nxd5 10. O-O ♕b3 is the mainline (10. Qb3 Nce7) 11. O-O O-O 12. Rfe1 c6 13. Ne4 Qb6 14. Nc3 Qxb3 15. Bxb3 Be6 And the play revolves around d5) 10... O-O 11. h3 A weakening, non-devolping move Nf4 immediately taking advantage of White's mistake 12. Kh2 Concrete analysis shows that white is equal after (12. Ne4 Bxh3 (12... Nxh3+ 13. gxh3 Bxh3 14. Re1) 13. gxh3 Qd7 14. Re1 Nxh3+ 15. Kf1 Nf4 16. Neg5 h6 17. Re4 Qf5 18. Nxf7 Rxf7 19. Bxf7+ Qxf7) 12... Nxd4 13. Nxd4 Qxd4 14. Qc2 Qd6 (14... b5 ) Deflecting the bishop onto a unguarded square 15. Bb3 (15. Bxb5 Nxh3 16. gxh3 Qe5+) 15... Bb7 16. f3 Qd6) 15. Kh1 (15. Kg1 b5 16. Bxb5 (16. Bb3) 16... Bb7 ) 15... Qh6 (Now sacrifices are looming) (15... b5 16. Bxb5 Bxh3 ( 16... Nxg2 17. Kxg2 Qd5+ 18. Kh2 Qe5+ 19. f4 Qxb5) 17. gxh3 Qd5+ 18. Qe4 ) 16. Qc3 Bf5 This devolpment of the bishop seems artifical. (16... Rd8 Δ to deflect the queen with ♖xd2 17. Qe3 Rxd2 (17... Bf5) (17... Bxh3 guarding the back rank 18. gxh3 Rxd2 ) 18. Qe8#) 17. Kh2 Another timid king move Rad8 Δ ♖xd2 18. Rad1 Bxh3 19. gxh3 Rd3 20. Qxd3 Nxd3 21. Bxd3 Qd6+ A simple fork ends the game. 22. f4 Qxd3 0-1

Sep-08-18  jabinjikanza: That's my man brilliant always.
Apr-28-20  talhal20: St. Amant who played against Stauntant and lost was not a weak player.
Aug-09-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  kingscrusher: A brilliant demonstration example of how "killer common squares" become even more "killer" when the defensive resources are taken out of the equation :)
Aug-09-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Three shades of Morphy: incredibly brilliant, very brilliant, plain old brilliant.
Jan-08-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: The <Field> of Noveber 27th 1858, p.428, has this game (White is given only as <St. Amant>). However, there we find <18. KR to Q>, i.e., <18. Rfd1>. <Rad1> looks a more natural move, albeit <18...Bxh3> is equally killing.

Boden was getting games directly from Morphy in Paris, but it appears that Walker, too, gave the game in <Bell's Life>, and would also likely have been published in France. Best try and locate these before jumping to change the score - Morphy games are like holy writ.

Jan-08-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <The Chess Monthly, Jan 1859, pp22-23, gives the game>

Sorry, I overlooked this - it has <18. Rad1>.

<The earliest source I've found so far gives initials for St. Amant's partner as: "F. de l'A." (source: Paul Morphy. Skizze aus der Schachwelt. Zweiter Theil., 1859, p28).>

The <Field> of December 11th 1858 details Morphy's current record in France and it gives the consulting partners as <St. Amant and F. de L.>, the score being -3 in Morphy's favour. St. Amant separately teaming up with Lequesne (-2 =2).

Now, excuse me if I'm being dense, but who/what decided on this <Marie Florimond de Basterot>?

Jan-08-22  jnpope: <MissScarlett>, poor writing on my part. The earliest source giving the most information is <Paul Morphy. Skizze aus der Schachwelt. Zweiter Theil., 1859, p28>. Most sources give just "F. de L." whereas that particular source gives "F. de l'A."

Could be a red herring but you never know.

Jan-08-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: So this is the Basterot link:

http://www.edochess.ca/batgirl/Bast...

Jan-08-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: <La Baronne F. de L>

https://morphyfile.blogspot.com/200...

Jan-08-22  jnpope: After reading both links, I can totally buy "Marie Florimond de l'Arcet de Basterot".
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