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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-01-06 | | blingice: I didn't get it, and even if I did get it, I wouldn't have gotten it. :P |
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| Jul-01-06 | | millert: I found 1...Nxd4 2.Nxd4 Rxd4 3.hxg4 Bxg4 4.f3 Qd7 5.fxg4 Re8 6.Nc3 Rxc4 7.Rd1 Rxe2+ 8.Bxe2 Qe8 9.Rxh7 Rxg4 but this is just unclear (at least to me). I suspect Black has the advantage. After 1...Rhe8!! according to Rybbka 2.hxg4 ( 2.Nc3 is actually a better try but it fails after Bxc4 3.Qxe7 Rxe7+ 4.Kd2 Nxd4 5.Bxc4 Nxf3+ 6.Kc2 Nd4+ 7.Kc1 Ne5 8.Bf1 Re6 9.b3 Rf6 10.f3 Nf5 11.Kb2 Ng3 12.Rg1 Rd2+ 13.Ka3 Nxf1 14.Rgxf1 Ra6+ 15.Kb4 Rd4+ 16.Kc5 Rad6 17.Rad1 Nd7+ 18.Kb5 a6+ 19.Ka5 b6+ 20.Kxa6 Nc5+ 21.Kb5 Kb7 22.Rxd4 Rxd4 23.Rd1 c6 is mate. ) After 2. ... Qb4+ 3.Qd2 Bxg4+ (Black missed 3...Nxd4!! 4.Qxb4 ( or after 4.Nxd4 Bxc4+ 5.Kd1 Rxd4 6.Qxd4 Re1+ 7.Kc2 Bb3+ 8.axb3 Qxd4 9.b4 Qxf2+ 10.Kb3 Rxf1 and Black wins or 4.Bd3 Nxf3+ 5.gxf3 Bf5+ 6.Kf1 Bxd3+ 7.Kg1 Re1+ 8.Kh2 Qd6+ 9.Kg2 Rxb1 10.Qe3 Rxa1 and Black wins) Nc2+ 5.Ke2 Bxc4 is mate) After 3. ... Bxg4 4.Kd1 is considered best but then Rxd4 5.Bd3 Bxf3+ 6.gxf3 Qd6 7.c5 Qd5 8.Be4 Rxd2+ 9.Nxd2 Qd4 10.Re1 Rd8 11.Re2 h5 12.Rc1 h4 Black is still winning but this is more difficult than 3. ... Nxd4!!. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | chessmoron: <think> Oops. I forgot the queen on e2. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | monad: What was the question again?
(13.hxg4 was a gift.) |
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| Jul-01-06 | | monad: 12.....Qf6 before playing Rhe8, isn't too shabby either. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | dakgootje: Considered saccing knight and/or bishop, but both didnt work. Thought some more and more and the attack i planned just didnt work. So i just thought: What would i play in a normal game: Rhe8 or i would pull back the knight. Normally in a game i would pull back the knight, so here i choose Rhe8 =) |
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| Jul-01-06 | | JohnBoy: This is a very nice puzzle! I would play 12...Qb4+ followed by 13...Rhe8. Didn't even consider reversing order on these two moves. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | vizir: amazing!!!!!
exellent.play |
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| Jul-01-06 | | jahhaj: 12...Rhe8 was my pick, it looked logical and strong. But I have to play moves like that on intuition, no way can I work out all the variations. I guess my thinking was pretty much like <JohnBoy> but I did reverse the moves. |
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Jul-01-06
 | | kevin86: It was too deep for me-the immense force along the e-file against an uncastled king can be lethal-as it was here. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | mig55: Missed it totaly.. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | patzer2: Black's 12...Rhe8!! is a deep attacking positional sacrifice designed to pick off most of White's pawns in order to decisively over-compensate for White's extra piece at the end of the resulting attack. |
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| Jul-01-06 | | Mendrys: No way I would have come close to finding this variation. I agree with <jahhaj>. This type of move would have to be made on intuition for most of us.
This position is very instructive. An uncastled king in the center with a queen in front of him to boot begs us to increase pressure on the e file. However, I doubt I would have played this. A David Bronstein would easily find the next sac on move 15 but not me!
I wonder if Fiorito had to calculate all the way to 18....Nxf3+ or just knew intuitively that 12...Rhe8! was the strongest move.
I was surprised that Crafty found the move almost immediately on my slow computer: depth=12 4/47 -1.32 12. ... Rhe8 13. Nc3 Bxc4 14. Qxe7 Rxe7+ 15. Be2 Bxe2 16. Nxe2 Rde8 17. hxg4 Rxe2+ 18. Kf1 h6 19. d5 Nb4
Nodes: 171555427 NPS: 545572
Time: 00:05:14.45 |
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| Jul-01-06 | | Fezzik: I did exactly the same thing JohnBoy did: I thought the first move was going to be 12....Qb4+, but I got bogged down in the side variations. It makes much more sense to play 12...Rhe8 first. In a serious game, there's a good chance I would have played the critical move. I didn't spend the amount of time the position deserved today. Nice position, CG.com!
Oh,
and
Good night, John Boy! :) |
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| Jul-01-06 | | AniamL: Interesting how long the white queen stays en prise! |
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| Jul-01-06 | | RandomVisitor: Black can also play 12...Nf6. Here are white's responses: (18-ply)
1: P Zarnicki - F Fiorito, zt 2.5 Buenos Aires ARG 2000
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.0 Beta 8 mp:
1. (-0.59): 13.Qe3 Rhe8 14.Nc3 Bxc4 15.0-0-0 Qxe3+ 16.fxe3 Bxf1 17.Rhxf1 Rxe3 18.a3 Nd5 19.Kd2 Re6 2. (-0.60): 13.Nc3 Nxd4 14.Nxd4 Rxd4 15.Rd1 Rdd8 16.Rxd8+ Rxd8 17.Qe3 Re8 18.Be2 Bxc4 19.Qxe7 Rxe7 3. (-1.09): 13.d5 Rhe8 14.Nbd2 Qc5 15.0-0-0 Bxd5 16.Qd3 Nb4 17.Qb3 Bc6 18.a3 Na6 19.Bd3 Qxf2 (, 01.07.2006)
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| Jul-01-06 | | RandomVisitor: Here is monad's 12...Qf6: this seems just as effective for a solution as 12...Rhe8 followed by 13.Nc3:
1: P Zarnicki - F Fiorito, zt 2.5 Buenos Aires ARG 2000
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.0 Beta 8 mp:
1. (-0.84): 13.Nc3 Rhe8 14.Ne4 Qh6 15.d5 Nf6 16.Qe3 Bxd5 17.Qxh6 gxh6 18.cxd5 Rxe4+ 19.Kd2 Nxd5 2. (-1.12): 13.d5 Rhe8 14.Nc3 Nb4 15.hxg4 Bxg4 16.0-0-0 Rxe2 17.Bxe2 Qf4+ 18.Rd2 Re8 19.Kd1 h5 3. (-1.29): 13.Nbd2 Nxd4 14.Ne4 Qh6 15.Nxd4 Rxd4 16.Rd1 Rhd8 17.Rxd4 Rxd4 18.Nd2 Rf4 19.hxg4 Qxh1 (, 01.07.2006)
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| Jul-01-06 | | RandomVisitor: Finally, 12...Rhe8:
1: P Zarnicki - F Fiorito, zt 2.5 Buenos Aires ARG 2000
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.0 Beta 8 mp:
1. (-0.89): 13.Nc3 Bxc4 14.Qxe7 Rxe7+ 15.Be2 Bxe2 16.Nxe2 Rde8 17.hxg4 Rxe2+ 18.Kf1 Rxb2 19.Rxh7 Ree2 2. (-1.77): 13.hxg4 Qb4+ 14.Nc3 Bxc4 15.0-0-0 Bxe2 16.Nxe2 Qd6 17.g5 Ne5 18.Neg1 Qc6+ 19.Kb1 Qg6+ 3. (-1.88): 13.Nbd2 Bxc4 14.Qxe7 Rxe7+ 15.Kd1 Nxf2+ 16.Kc2 Nb4+ 17.Kc1 Nxh1 18.Bxc4 Nf2 19.a3 Nc6 (, 01.07.2006)
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Nov-13-16
 | | Bubo bubo: I like how Black does <not> capture the white queen on for consecutive moves - knowing well that she will not escape in the end. |
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| Nov-26-22 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: Wonderful game. |
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| Nov-26-22 | | goodevans: Great attacking play by Black.
It all started going wrong for White with <10.Nf3?>. Pablo Zarnicki was a very strong player so it's hard to understand that he didn't see just how awkward <10...Ng4> would make things. <13.hxg4> may have been 'a gift' (as <monad> puts it) but White was probably already lost by then. SF 14+ agrees with the line given by Rybka 2.0 in 2006 for <13.Nc3> as far as 16...Rde8 (<RandomVisitor>'s post, above) but it evaluates that line at around <-3> compared with Rykba's <-0.89>, i.e. pretty much a clear win for Black. Great game (and that's the main thing) but there hasn't been a really good pun for nearly two weeks now (I'm not counting Petrov vs R Grau, 1939 because that was a repeat). All I can say about this one is that it's better than V Antonov vs C Kamp, 1989. But will it generate as much discussion? |
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Nov-26-22
 | | perfidious: It is unfortunate, but Dolmatov vs C Boissonet, 1991 appears to take some of the fun out of this gambit. |
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| Nov-26-22 | | newzild: Accepting the gambit with 4. dxe6 is very dangerous for White. Objectively, White can get an advantage but some of the lines are complicated and the consequences of a mis-step are deadly. |
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| Nov-26-22 | | goodevans: I always thought it best to avoid all this with 3.d4 rather than 3.c4 then play c4 at an opportune moment later on. Seemed to work every time for me at least in the opening. Of course, I was quite often capable of nausing it up later on. |
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Nov-26-22
 | | Teyss: <goodevans> I agree, pun quality has been low lately but it's more than compensated by the games. This one is great again all the way from 12...Rhe8! The coolest move (by all meanings) is arguably 19...Bxf3! because if 19...Rxd2? as I was expecting, Nxd2 Qmoves 21.fxg4 Qxd2 and Black is much better but still has some work to do (SF -3.8 at 29 ply). 
click for larger view19...Bxf3 threatens mate so White has to leave his Q en prise and Black will end Q+3Ps vs R+N instead of Q+2Ps vs 2Rs (SF -8.8 at 30 ply). |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 15...Rxe2+