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Jan Timman vs Werner Hug
Nice Olympiad qual-8 (1974), Nice FRA, rd 3, Jun-09
French Defense: Winawer. Retreat Variation Armenian Line (C18)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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sac: 36.Ra8+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-19-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: Again, a microsecond to get this one.
Dec-19-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Werner wanted to Hug the Timman, but it was not meant to be.
Dec-19-06  soberknight: For those who are unaware: it is a time-honored tradition here (no pun intended) for people to write, "I got this puzzle in the square root of 2 times 10 to the power of -7 seconds" or something of that ilk. It's just another way of saying, "This puzzle was so easy, and I'm so smart." I don't find it funny, but I've learned to tolerate it.
Dec-19-06  howardb86: It took me the longest of all of ya' to get this, BUT I'm 68 years old and have not played chess for 45 years! What a great site this is. Oh yes, took me over a minute. Trying to get retooled for grandkids who are coming on learing the game in school. Imagine.
Dec-19-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <For those who are unaware: it is a time-honored tradition here (no pun intended) for people to write, "I got this puzzle in the square root of 2 times 10 to the power of -7 seconds" or something of that ilk. It's just another way of saying, "This puzzle was so easy, and I'm so smart." I don't find it funny, but I've learned to tolerate it.> I coudln't solve ANY puzzle here until the last monday. Last week I solved 6 puzzles (only Sunday went wrong), and this week also both Mo and Tu. I din't try to be funny or tell I'm smart. If I would have spent an hour on it, I'd write "got it in 1 hour":-) But what should I write if I got it just by taking a really short look at the position????
Dec-19-06  be3292: <echo unlucky: Timman needed the hug .... goddit.
Dec-19-06  jimx: I wrote down the answer to this puzzle and sealed it in an envelope 2 weeks ago. Today I opened the envelope in front of several independent witnesses to confirm that I was indeed correct. Thus proving that I solved it in approximately negative 336 hours. *

* might be complete bollocks.

Dec-19-06  norami: If only they exchanged another pawn. Each player would have had one of each - king, queen, rook, bishop, knight, pawn.
Dec-19-06  GannonKnight: Got it right away!

Pretty easy given the positions of the white knight, black king and black queen. I looked for a fork opportunity.

I agree with the time trouble. It was move 36 and most tournaments have a time limit for 40 moves.

Dec-24-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: If you play through the game, it was an extremely exciting and well-played game. Without any deep analysis, I would have to say that Black was OK, and only lost near the end of this terrific struggle.
Jan-11-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  LoveThatJoker: Shajmaty: <LoveThatJoker: Now looking at the game again, Happypuppet, I believe that Black's undoing came as early as move 6, believe it or not! 6...cxd4?! is dubious. Of course, as Yasser Seirawan has stated, "center pawns are more valuable." But in this position after white himself has played the rather strange 6. b4?! the correct manner of proceeding was simply to capture on b4 with 6...cxb4.> I disagree. 6. b4 is the most often (more than 70%) played move in such a position, and also 6...cxd4 is much more often (like 20:1) played than 6...cxb4(?), which is answered by 7. Nb5! If then 7...bxa3(?), as U suggest, 8. c3 with a clear advantage (dark squares). Opening Theory, my friend.

Opening Theory changes, you condescending piss ant.

Black wins a pawn in exchange for the dark squares. If Black plays his cards right he can hold it! This is what I am saying. I am more inclined to win a pawn yet withstand pressure for it fool!

Jan-11-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  LoveThatJoker: Shajmaty: Look for this game

Hase, Ricardo - Rossetto, Hector D 1/2
Date: 1972.??.?? Tour. 49. ARG-ch pre-fn/B ECO: C17

See what I mean?! All your '?' in your analysis stink of superficiality and lack of original thinking.

STOP RELYING ON FRITZ AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!

LTJ

Jan-29-24
Premium Chessgames Member
  Korora: Bye-bye birdie, but here comes a royal fork.
Jan-29-24  Mayankk: Once you realise there is no mate or Queen sac available, you immediately spot the classic lure-king-into-a-fork tactics.

36 Ra8+ Kxa8 37 Nc7+. Time to resign.

Jan-29-24
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Hardly standard Monday fare for this POTD, as Timman had to foresee that his knight escapes after snaffling the enemy queen.
Jan-29-24  King.Arthur.Brazil: Really Monday: 36. Ra8+ Kxa8 37. Nc7+ Kb8 38. Nxe8 (Bxe8 39. Qxe8+) Re6 39. Qf4+ (Ka7 40. Nc7 and the ♘ escapes.) Ne5 40. Nf6 Bc6 41. Bxf5 Re7 42. Ng4 and B loses more material.
Jan-29-24
Premium Chessgames Member
  takebackok: No think Monday 36 Ra8+ white will win the queen & game.
Jan-29-24  mel gibson: I saw that in under 2 seconds. LOL
Jan-29-24  Oxspawn: Looking back to 2007, the world seems to be in a much worse place now, but this site was nastier then. Today (2024), I got this in a slightly slower than average time! And was happy to do so.
Jan-29-24  Damenlaeuferbauer: After long thinking, the eternal Jan Timman, the second-best Dutch chess player in history after the immortal 5th world champion and 2nd FIDE president Dr. Max Euwe, finally found the nice combination 36.Ra8+!,Kxa8 37.Nc7+,Kb8 38.Nxe8,Re6 39.Qf4+ +-. The Armenian variation 5.-,Ba5 of the French Winawer is fascinating and very complicated, but maybe not 100% sound. The most famous encounter was Bobby Fischer vs. Mikhail Tal, Leipzig (ol) 1960.
Jan-29-24  TheaN: <36.Ra8+ Kxa8 37.Nc7+ Kb8 38.Nxe8> is forced and now Black could attempt either 38....f4 39.Qe4 +- or the slightly trickier <38....Re6> to trap the knight. After <39.Qf4+ +-> however, White creates an escape square on d6 regardless of Black's response.

<perfidious: Hardly standard Monday fare for this POTD, as Timman had to foresee that his knight escapes after snaffling the enemy queen.>

Not really, to be honest, even if Black is allowed to take on e8 it's still QP:RN and the rook and knight aren't really positioned to cause real damage. And regardless, White will have to answer Re6 and only targeting f5 or saving the knight make sense.

Jan-29-24
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: I honey its z q u paw its fed c v Ra8+ i hit doh its aog jug bit hog its Ra8+ dictum :)
Jan-29-24
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: I don't understand 31.f5. Well, I see the idea 31...exf5 32.Rh4 but it can be still replied with 32...f4. Trade of Pawns is in black's favour here. 31.Rc4 was a better move.
Jan-29-24  TheaN: <LoveThatJoker: <Shajmaty: I disagree. 6. b4 is the most often (more than 70%) played move in such a position, and also 6...cxd4 is much more often (like 20:1) played than 6...cxb4(?), which is answered by 7. Nb5! If then 7...bxa3(?), as U suggest, 8. c3 with a clear advantage (dark squares). Opening Theory, my friend.>

Opening Theory changes, you condescending piss ant.

Black wins a pawn in exchange for the dark squares. If Black plays his cards right he can hold it! This is what I am saying. I am more inclined to win a pawn yet withstand pressure for it fool!>

Only now do I see this post of LTJ from 18 years ago... daaamn you took that personally! We all age so I reckon you look back at this differently now, but for what it's worth: <Shajmaty> was correct and cxd4 is objectively better: it was and is established theory. Black strikes in the center which cannot be undone by White, and a double-edged game unfolds.

I think the 6....cxb4 line changed a bit though, and 7.Nb5 Nc6 8.Bd2 bxa3 9.Bxa5! is the new approach, 9....Qxa5+ 10.c3 followed by Rxa3. Yes, Black won a pawn but the position is very passive and borderline lost if White keeps playing logical moves. Having said that, it is a surprise weapon as a lot of White players misplay the line by playing Nd6+ early.

Jan-29-24  TheaN: And before I get smited as well: giving up the center in this structure with Black is just ill recommendation. In the line given, 6....cxb4 7.Nb5 bxa3+, simply 8.c3 <is> very dangerous for Black, as the natural 8....Nc6? now leads to 9.Nd6+ and 9....Kf8 10.Qf3! is a minefield:


click for larger view

10....Nh6? 11.Bxh6 +-, 10....Qe7? 11.Ba3 +-, 10....f5? 11.Bxa3 ±. The only line White needs to prepare is 10....Qc7?! 11.Kd1! threatening Bxa3 11....Nh6 12.Bxh6 gxh6 13.Qf6 ±:


click for larger view

Yeeaaah no.

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