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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-25-02 | | ughaibu: Steinitz against Max Lange, another Muzio king hunt ranging across the board. |
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| Nov-25-03 | | raylopez99: Max Lange is about to make history in this minature against the Master! Muzio gambit when defense was not in vogue--Max is achin' for a breakin'! |
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Nov-26-03
 | | Honza Cervenka: 11.Rf2 or 11.Rf3 would have been more solid way to the win. Then black cannot play 11...Qe8 for 12.Qg5+ with mate and so the threat 12.Bg5+ winning the Queen is unavoidable. |
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| Nov-30-05 | | yuvalset: Why not 11...Rxf8? |
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| Nov-30-05 | | fred lennox: ...Qxf8 prevents the queen being captured by 12.Bg5+. It also has the threat Qf1# forcing white to take the g pawn, exposing the king to danger. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | THE pawn: Nice miniature of the day, by the way, good year to all of you! |
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| Jan-01-06 | | blingice: Why do such players make such moves? The only thought behind such moves is "I'm playing for fun, I'll just throw pieces at him, maybe it'll be a cool combination."? I really can't see what would make a person like Steinitz would, but I don't think many here can say "Yes, all 5 of those sacs were justified." If there is someone who could explain, at least, why the knight sac was justified or considered...I'm just still writing because I'm so amazed. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | sneaky pete: Black is not Max Lange but a Viennese coffeehouse amateur named Lang. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | VStrider: <blingice> the knight sac is not justified and Steinitz would lose the game against a modern GM. But this game was played on 1860. Chess was very different at the time. (better, IMHO. Modern theory ruins the game) Black here got greedy with 7..fg and neglected his own development. In the end he resigns cause of mate in 2. 19...Ka5 20.cb+ Kb6 21.Na4#
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| Jan-01-06 | | dakgootje: Nice game! I think after 11. ...♖xf8 something like11. ...♖xf8 12. ♗g5 ♖f6 13. ♕xh6 ♕f8 14. ♕xf8 ♔xf8 15. ♗xf6 or something? After that the black pawn on g2 will fall, but black only has 1 pawn less, so white doesnt have a huge advantage...I think... |
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| Jan-01-06 | | ReikiMaster: <VStrider> yes, 19.Nc5+ cuts off Nb4's last defender Qf8. I agree that 6.c3 seems very unlikely to be the best move. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | orior: <VStrider>
mate in 1:
19.. Ka5 20. Qxb4 mate |
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| Jan-01-06 | | refutor: the knight on move 6? it's theory...google "Muzio Gambit" |
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| Jan-01-06 | | azaris: What if instead of the awful 14...Kc5, Black tried:
14...Ne5 15. Bxh6 Qe8 16. Qf5 c6 17. Bf4 Kc5 (<17...Rf8 18. Bxe5+ Kc5 19. Bd4+ Kb5 20. Qh3  >) 18. b4+ Kb6 19. Bxe5 Rf8 20. Nc4+ Ka6 21. a4! and should win for White. Improvements? |
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| Jan-01-06 | | DeepBlade: <VStrider> & <orior>
Its an mate in 3.
19. Nc5+ Qxc5 20. Qxc5 a5 21. b3+ Ka3 22. Bc1#
<azaris>
14... Ne5 15. Bxh6 Qe8 16. Qf5 c6
17. Bf4 Kc5 18. Bxe5 Rg8 19. Bc7 <its an mate in 6 for White> Kb5 20. d6+ Qe5 21. Qxe5+ c5 22. a4+ Ka6 23.
b4 b6 24. b5+ Kb7 25. Qd5#
your line leads to an winning endgame
18. b4+ Kb6 19. Bxe5 Rf8 20. a4 a5 21. Qg5 Rf1+ 22. Kxg2 Qxe5 23. Qxe5 Rxa1 24. Nc4+ Ka7 25. dxc6 dxc6 26. Qc5+ Kb8 27. b5 cxb5 28. axb5 Rb1 29. b6 Rxb6 30. Nxb6 Be6 31. Qe5+ Ka7 32. Qxa5+ Kb8 33. Nxa8
<and now it is an QN+PPP vs B+PP endgame> |
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| Jan-01-06 | | sneaky pete: <dakgootje> After 11... Rxf8? 12.Bg5+ Rf6 13.e5 .. is rather painful. After 11... Qxf8 Bachmann gives 12... Kd6 and 14... Ne5 as possible improvements. White could have played, instead of the unneccessary violent 11.Rxf8?! .., the easy winner 11.Rf2 .. (or 11.Rf3 ..) threat 12.Bg5+ .. against which there seems to be no adequate defence. No doubt Steinitz spotted this possibility, but he preferred something more flashy, hoping to make GOTD someday. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | psmith: <VStrider> what is your proposed alternative to 7...fxg2 and how does it win clearly for Black? |
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| Jan-01-06 | | VStrider: <psmith> i'd probably play 7..Bh6. If black had not played fg there would be no chance for the bishop sac to succeed. It doesn't win yet but it keeps black in the game. Usually when you are up in material, you almost always give something else up. Tempo and attacking chances for the opposition. So you need to watch those grabbing habits ;-) <orior> Yes, you're right. It's mate in 1 not 2. I was on my first coffee with a headache. :) |
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| Jan-01-06 | | Eatman: This isn't straight forward Muzio, but an offshoot of it (perhaps a different name?).
Anyway, Steinitz in 1860 was young and liked to play in the romantic style so prevalent at the time. His own positional theories would come later. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <This isn't straight forward Muzio, but an offshoot of it> <Eatman> If you don't mind a novice player asking, how is this not a normal Muzio? It appears quite a standard Muzio to me. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: another question:
Can anyone explain the pun? Am I really the only one not to understand it? <<<<Happy New Year everyone!>>>> |
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| Jan-01-06 | | Karpova: <EmperorAtahualpa>
Auld lang syne is a song:
<Words adapated from a traditional song
by Rabbie Burns (1759-96)
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And auld lang syne?
CHORUS:
For auld lang syne, my dear,
For auld lang syne,
We'll tak a cup of kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!
And surely ye'll be your pint-stowp,
And surely I'll be mine,
And we'll tak a cup o kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!
We twa hae run about the braes,
And pou'd the gowans fine,
But we've wander'd monie a weary fit,
Sin auld lang syne.
We twa hae paidl'd in the burn
Frae morning sun till dine,
But seas between us braid hae roar'd
Sin auld lang syne.
And there's a hand my trusty fiere,
And gie's a hand o thine,
And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught,
For auld lang syne
Meanings
auld lang syne - times gone by
be - pay for
braes - hills
braid - broad
burn - stream
dine - dinner time
fiere - friend
fit - foot
gowans - daisies
guid-willie waught - goodwill drink
monie - many
morning sun - noon
paidl't - paddled
pint-stowp - pint tankard
pou'd - pulled
twa - two>
from http://www.hogmanay.net/history/aul... |
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| Jan-01-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <Karpova> Thanks for that! I just saw the webpage you referred me to, and apparently some people sing this song on New Year's Eve. Now it all starts to make sense. :) |
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Jan-01-06
 | | cu8sfan: Lol! The puns, the puns! I assume this is just the beginning of another year with great puns. |
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| Jan-01-06 | | Caro.K.4.me: Wow!
that kid Lange must've hae tak'n too many pint-stowps. <hic!> 11.Rxf8 is so punny!
Beware the Spooky Steinitz Storm!Ooooo!
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Kibitzing
sac: 6.c3
