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May-30-06 | | ughaibu: For non-Brits, the most puzzling question might be, "what's a porky?" |
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May-30-06
 | | WannaBe: Re: <"what's a porky?"> It was a movie! |
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May-31-06 | | themadhair: Ok then. A porky is a little white lie. An act of economical truth telling or an attempt to mislead..... |
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May-31-06 | | arifattar: to continue from <notsodeepthought>:
142857 x 8 = 1142856. so the sequence is broken? not really. What is missing? 7.
What is extra? 1 and 6
Add the two and you get the missing no.
142857 x 9 = 1285713 (3 + 1 replaces the missing 4)
142857 x 10 = 1428570
142857 x 11 = 1571427
I wonder where it stops. |
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May-31-06 | | notsodeepthought: <themadhair: Ok then. A porky is a little white lie. An act of economical truth telling or an attempt to mislead.....> Which is why, if such an attempt or act with a goal to mislead is committed in retaliation to a previous wrong (real or perceived), the act is referred to as "Porky's Revenge." |
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Jun-01-06 | | apawnandafool: hope you all enjoy this one!
 click for larger viewit's a drawn game, but black has decided that he'll resign, on one condition: you must tell him the minimum number of moves necessary for white's bishop to travel from h1 to a8, whilst passing through all the other white squares of the board once, and only once. (kings remain stationary) for the full point, what's the number? |
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Jun-01-06
 | | Sneaky: <zarra> <In your equation for expected return, <0.5(2X) + 0.5(X/2)>, you use X for two different things. In the first term, X=money in the poor envelope, whereas in the second term, X=money in the rich envelope. Shame on you!> I don't know what you mean. "X" is not the poor envelope or the rich envelope, "X" is the unknown amount of money in the envelope that was picked. The other envelope therefore should have twice that amount (2X) or half that amount (X/2) with an equal probability of each. That's what's so befuddling about the double-or-half paradox. The math seems to add up perfectly but it defies all common sense. I don't have a pat answer. I have told this to my math-minded friends, who were very upset to hear all of this, and to preserve their sanity they came up with DIFFERENT mathematical models of the situation which did reach the correct conclusion. The correct conclusion, of course, being that it makes no difference if you switch. For example, forget about my "X", let's just say that the envelope with the smaller amount is Y and other one contains 2Y. Now, whichever one you pick, your expected return is 1.5*Y, and switching will not change this simple fact. Voila, problem solved. Solved? Not at all. He never showed the flaw in my reasoning, he just provided different reasoning. That doesn't solve the paradox. If anything it shows that mathematics is built on a foundation of sand, since two perfectly acceptable mathematical methods yield entirely different results. I don't have an answer to this one folks. It's a genuine stumper. |
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Jun-01-06 | | ughaibu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_en... |
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Jun-01-06 | | ganstaman: I kinda like this explaination: http://www.poker1.com/absolutenm/te... It sorta says why the normal 'expected value' equation doesn't work. In the end, it really isn't 50/50 that the other envelope contains double or half. |
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Jun-01-06 | | WillC21: While an undergrad. in college I got a major in economics and a minor in physics; today my line of study is unrelated to physics, but I still enjoy physics problems and brain-teasers.
Here's a good one(paper and pencil are necessary to solve it, as it is not a trick question): A chain of mass "M" and length "L" is suspended vertically with its lower end just touching a scale. The chain is released suddenly and falls onto the scale. What is the reading of the scale when length "x" of the chain has fallen? Neglect sizes of individual chain links. Note: Assume that the scale is not defective.
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Jun-02-06 | | whatthefat: <WillC21>
I assume the point the problem is trying to make is that the parts of the chain still in free fall will not contribute to the reading on the scale - only those parts that have already landed will. So the reading on the scale would increase quadratically from zero to M.I think it's an inexact problem though, and if you want to be accurate, it can actually be fiendishly difficult. I'll briefly outline a few of these points: To start with, if we assume that the chain is hung perfectly straight, then when it is released, we actually require some sort of asymmetry of the chain for it to fall over into a bundle on the scale. Otherwise, assuming perfect symmetry, there's no reason for it to fall one way or the other, and it will stand on end (until the quantum fluctuations get it, which may not be long - it depends on the shape of the head of the chain). In this rather interesting case, the bottom of the chain is not going anywhere, while the top starts to fall, so the chain will compress. This compression will continue to increase until it is sufficient to start pushing the top back up again. And you see that it will behave like a spring, expanding and contracting about it's equilibrium forever (or until the energy dissipates, obviously). In this case, we have an oscillatory reading on the scale! Then there's the possibility of the chain bouncing off the scale when it lands, so I think we also need to assume that the collision is completely inelastic (i.e., the kinetic energy is converted purely into sound and heat, say), otherwise the problem is getting beyond the calculable realm! If the collisions are perfectly elastic (i.e., bouncy chain!), and the chain is much lighter than the earth, we'd probably have a periodic (maybe even chaotic(!), depending on how the chain was precisely arranged when it was dropped) solution, with the chain continually bouncing up and down off the scale. Sorry to nitpick, I just saw that the problem had a number of technical points attached to it when I sat down to do it! |
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Jun-02-06 | | whatthefat: <apawnandafool: for the full point, what's the number?> I don't think it's possible. The reason being that at some point we have to get into and out of the f1 and h3 squares. Each of those squares has 2 diagonal routes through it. However, one of those routes is common - namely the f1-h3 diagonal. Hence, we can get in and out of one of the squares, at the cost of removing one of those options for the other! The same issue applies at the opposite corner with the squares a6 and c8. So, after a brief think, I'd call the arbiter! :) |
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Jun-02-06 | | apawnandafool: <whatthefat - in and out of the f1 and h3 squares> you're right! (that's called an unintentional porky. sorry!) click for larger viewrephrasing: you must tell him the minimum number of moves necessary for white's bishop to travel from h1 to a8, whilst passing through all the other white squares of the board AT LEAST once. |
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Jun-02-06 | | apawnandafool: <Sneaky smaller amount is Y and other one contains 2Y. Now, whichever one you pick, your expected return is 1.5*Y> this is like playing blackjack in hades for a cruise to tahiti. let's suppose that you're holding a king and a 5. when monty hall (dressed up to look like the devil) decides to make a deal with you. he offers you two cards face down. the first one he says, is an 8 of clubs, and the other one is a 4 of hearts. you take one leaving it face down. he then offers you to make the switch. if we say that the 4 is Y, and the 8 is 2Y, then you're expected return is 1.5*Y, which is 6, and you'll get 21 if you keep switching ad infinitum (and it's a sure bet, you'll go to tahiti). but if you ever stop, you'll have a 50% chance of busting and losing the trip. |
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Jun-02-06 | | themadhair: <apawnandafool> Is it 17 moves? |
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Jun-02-06 | | apawnandafool: <the madhair is it 17 moves?> yes, well done! |
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Jun-02-06 | | themadhair: I worked out that 1.9 is an upper bound for the average number of new squares the bishop can visit. 16 moves is too few so 17 is a lower bound. Can't figure out the actual moves though. |
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Jun-02-06 | | AniamL: My favorite "paradox" is the proof that all numbers are equal. Let a = 1, b = 1.
a = b <identity theorem> a^2 = ab <multiply by a> a^2 - b^2 = ab - b^2 <subtract b^2> (a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b) <factor> a+b = b <divide> 1+1 = 1 <substitute> And there you have it! 2=1, and therefore (by manipulating both sides of the equation) all numbers are equal. |
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Jun-02-06
 | | WannaBe: <AniamL> The problem is when you divide (a-b) which is zero. That's where the proof falls apart. =) |
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Jun-02-06 | | WillC21: <whatthefat> Yes, you must assume the chain is perfectly straight, it doesn't bounce, and so on and so forth. Here's the solution: The reading of the scale consists of two parts: the weight of the chain accumulated and the impulse per unit time imparted by the chain colliding w/ the scale. Let's examine these two parts: 1) The weight accumulated is simply: W = (Mgx)/L ("g" is of course the gravitational constant) 2) Keep in mind that obviously the velocity of the links at the instant of hitting the scale is found from v*v = 2gx. The impulse per unit time is dp/dt. p=mv always, and so we can arrange as follows: d(mv)/dt = v(dm/dt) = v*(M/L)*v. Here, at the last stage, we can substitute from the velocity formula and obtain: 2Mg(x/L) The solution is to sum parts (1)+(2):
Mg(x/L)+2Mg(x/L) = 3Mg(x/L)
I actually derived this problem from a advanced physics lab I took two years ago: the classes final test data confirmed the answer is correct. :) |
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Jun-02-06 | | Catfriend: <WillC21> I had it in a physics test^-^! <AniamL> As always in such "paradoxes", the key is division by zero. Dividing by (a-b) means dividing by 1-1=0. Error. |
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Jun-02-06 | | AniamL: That doesn't stop me from befuddling little kids. |
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Jun-02-06 | | WillC21: <Catfriend> Interesting! I had the verification of it in a lab. By the way, since the above problem was not very difficult, I can ask a much trickier(and more interesting) problem if anyone would like? I'll check back tonight and post it if whatthefat, Catfriend, or anyone else is interested. |
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Jun-02-06 | | themadhair: <WillC21>I'd be interested. I'll be honest, if has numbers and a requirement for logical thought I'd be interested. |
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Jun-02-06
 | | WannaBe: <themadhair: <WillC21>I'd be interested. I'll be honest, if has numbers and a requirement for logical thought I'd be interested.> Would you balance my checkbook? |
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