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Mar-09-07 | | jayBharat: <Tactic101: What's shocking is that Singh would play brilliantly against a strong IM or GM one day, then lose badly to a 'lowly' FM or an expert the next day. It just doesn't make sense.> D P Singh was searched at various places like, Delhi, Valsad, Jaipur and at Kolkata during important chess tournaments
and It is common knowledge that nothing suspicious was found on him with regard to cheating in chess.
During the Kolkata tournament even a doctor was called in to perform a check on him but the result was still in D P Singh's favour. Having gone through everything and still performing almost like a good chess player, we must give due credit to D P Singh. who has been unnecessarily harrassed because of his phenominal rise in past few years.
AICF/FIDE should not pay attention to what people believe but should go by available evidence. |
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Mar-09-07 | | samsal27: Another interesting article on D.P. -http://sport.indiatimes.com/Prasad_... |
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Mar-09-07 | | builttospill: A few questions:
1) Has Singh always wore a hat? If not, when did he start wearing hats to chess events? 2) When did Singh start to get searched? Has Singh ever performed better than 2400 after being searched? 3) Has a relatively older player that's been around for a while ever increased 100 elo points in a 3 month period -- when those 100 points brought that player to a new rating high? If I had to guess, I bet he started cheating in April 06 at the same time as Sharma. The three month period he took off from chess was likely used to prepare the ingenius cheating method. If he started wearing hats at that point I'd have little doubt in my mind that's the case. That's why I ask. |
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Mar-09-07 | | Akavall: <Ragh> Thanks. |
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Mar-09-07 | | Akavall: <builttospill> <Has Singh ever performed better than 2400 after being searched?> Yes. Just now:
<Singh finished with 6/10 points missing the GM norm by 0.5 point. With a performance rating of 2487, he finished at 14th position, which is very impressive considering the field had over 20 GMs.> |
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Mar-09-07 | | builttospill: I guess that wouldn't be too uncommon, though, for a 2400 player to put up a performance like that. I'd have to see him play like this more frequently, maybe a few times without the hat, to figure him to be better than a 2400 player. |
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Mar-09-07 | | Tactic101: Innocent till proven guilty, in any case. |
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Mar-09-07 | | JustAFish: <3) Has a relatively older player that's been around for a while ever increased 100 elo points in a 3 month period -- when those 100 points brought that player to a new rating high?> Yes, me, on several occasions. |
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Mar-09-07
 | | WannaBe: Ditto here. |
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Mar-09-07 | | csmath: Pu this into perspective. What did Singh performed after cheating allegations surfaced. Indian 44th championship: he gets 50% significantly underperforming his 2500+ rating. He is 25th out of 45 participants: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
Olympiad - he loses to a guy rated below 2300. OK, only one game. 4th Parnsvath Open - Singh is 96th (!) significantly underperforming his rating again. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...
And his best result this 2nd Kalkota Open where he is 14-26: http://www.alekhinechessclub.com/fi...
Note that here he also underperfomed his rating, some 200 points lower than what he did in 2005 on two tournaments. How is this streak a good performance??
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Mar-09-07 | | csmath: When people cheat it is not only they get something they don't deserve.
THEY ALSO ROB OTHERS. If this guy cheated then he imposed a defeat on Koneru who could have been better, he replaced another person on Olympiad, he made people lose rating and tournaments because of his cheating, if it was of course. If Topalov cheated in San Luis, he robbed Anand from a shot to championship, he robbed Kasim, Moro, Svidler, ... he robbed Kasparov of retiring in a grand style and so on. If these people cheat, they should be banned for good from any competition. |
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Mar-10-07 | | SNiraj: <Innocent till proven guilty, in any case> Touche! |
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Mar-11-07 | | s4life: <whatthefat: <s4life: All those guys were teenagers, bad example.>
And as I said, "Granted, his age is a serious factor, but then who knows how much he has worked during that time."> Yes, I saw that... and that's why I said they are bad examples.. those kids got a sudden increase in their ELO not because they were working harder just prior to that point, but as a result of a natural development of their chess skills, something that only happens when you are a kid/teenager. <whattefat:Your opinion means no more than the next person's without any evidence. People would do best to hold their opinions until there has been a reasonable investigation.> Why the hostility?
I never said my opinions were better than the next person's BTW. Also, this is a web forum, not a jury, lol... opinions based on the current information available are as valid for the purpose of discussion in a forum. |
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Mar-11-07 | | whatthefat: <s4life>
It's not hostility. You gave your opinion on a matter none of us know very much about, and I pointed that out. Nothing personal. If I'd wanted to be personal, I'd have accused you of cheating, since I know about as much about you as you do about Singh. |
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Mar-12-07 | | s4life: <whattefat: It's not hostility.> Ok. w/e, I thought I was being told to shut up and just voice my opinions about the matter as soon as it becomes a moot point. <If I'd wanted to be personal, I'd have accused you of cheating, since I know about as much about you as you do about Singh.> Really?... some people in this site use so much rethorical and/or fallacious arguments.. ah well. Or was that a joke? Answer any of these then:
Do I wear a hat while playing chess in tournaments?
Do I have a very close training partner that has been caught cheating?
Did he wear a hat when he was caught cheating?
Did the cheating device was hidden in his hat?
Did I stop winning games as often, after people made sure I wasn't cheating?
Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play? If you knew at least that about me, I am sure you could have an opinion about the chances that I am cheating. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <s4life>
<Did I stop winning games as often, after people made sure I wasn't cheating?> He did have a dip in form, but then he has been playing well again. <Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play?> This to me is the crucial point, and nobody as far as I know has done any such analysis. Petrosian's comments on the matter are simply bizarre. I see a bunch of wild accusations on the game pages, but nothing of substance. If you do wish to argue that he is using an engine, a good start would be explaining how Humpy held him to a 0.00 eval to the 41st move of D P Singh vs Koneru, 2006. Maybe he is cheating, maybe he isn't. I don't feel prepared to pass judgment without some real information (some typically sensationalist chessbase journalism hardly counts). My point is, clearly I can bring you onto the defensive by accusing you of cheating without any real basis. How is it fair to do the same to him? |
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Mar-12-07 | | sapfy: <whatthefat: <Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play?> This to me is the crucial point, and nobody as far as I know has done any such analysis.> From todays issue of Chess Today (http://www.chesstoday.net/): From a letter from the Chess Players Association of India: "As you all are well aware, most of the Indian Chess Players who have gone through Mr. D.P. Singh's games from National A 2006 held at Vizag suspect that he was getting external help during his games. Most of the top players including many GMs and IMs have studied his games individually and also in a group and found that after theory all his moves matched with Deep Junior 9!!" Alex Baburin's response:
"I had a quick look at the games (you can see them in our database) – indeed there are strange moments – for example when Mr. Singh wastes tempi, which makes no sense – except for the fact that for some reason Junior suggests those moves! BTW, I used Junior 8, not Junior 9." |
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Mar-12-07 | | s4life: <whatthefat: My point is, clearly I can bring you onto the defensive by accusing you of cheating without any real basis. How is it fair to do the same to him?> Well, you can accuse me of anything you want.. I am pretty sure you'd make a fool out of yourself, given that you don't even know my name :). But I see what you are saying... "innocent until proven guilty" and I concurr. It's NOT the case that we don't know ANYTHING about this guy as you are trying to make it look like though. The circumstancial evidence is just a tad short of damning. We know answers to all the questions I gave you in my last post -thanks <sapfy>, that was timely ;) -. That should be enough for an informed opinion... do you agree? |
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Mar-12-07 | | Akavall: <Most of the top players including many GMs and IMs have studied his games individually and also in a group and found that after theory all his moves matched with Deep Junior 9!!"> What all the games? or just some games? The above statement could mean nothing if we are talking about two quick games, for example, or two games where opponents didn't give Singh hard enough 'puzzles' to solve. Also, "his moves matched with Deep Junior 9" doesn't mean a whole anyway, <sneaky> explained that very well on earlier pages here. In any case, I would like to see those games.
<for example when Mr. Singh wastes tempi, which makes no sense> Sometimes a human can waste a tempo due to oversight, sometimes humans make moves that make no sense. Again, I would like to see that game. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <sapfy>
Thanks for that. It's still just anecdotal though isn't it? I'd like to see some concrete examples, rather than vague comments about similarities. Study any strong player's games with the same intention in mind, and such correlations will appear. Whether they're of significance is another thing altogether. After all, humans do nothing better than find patterns. |
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Mar-12-07 | | csmath: <If you do wish to argue that he is using an engine, a good start would be explaining how Humpy held him to a 0.00 eval to the 41st move of D P Singh vs Koneru, 2006.> This is not unusual at all though it looks that way to you because you are a chess patzer.
A grandmaster coming armed with theory and solid principles of game can hold its own against computer engine for a long time, in many cases it can hold a draw. It happened many times in the past and it is no different now. |
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Mar-12-07
 | | JointheArmy: <csmath> Although I don't believe D P Singh cheats, you have a point. For those who don't believe me, its surprising how long GM's can hold their own against computers and draw against them especially when its not running dual processors. I know chess patzers like myself can hold their own against Fritz sometimes as well. Give me 10 games with white and I guarantee you I'll draw at least once with Fritz at any time control above 5 minutes. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <csmath: This is not unusual at all though it looks that way to you because you are a chess patzer.> Sorry. I forgot I'm in the presence of a self-declared genius. Don't worry about any sort of reasonable discussion. After all, some education could tarnish your perfect mind. |
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Mar-12-07 | | square dance: <Give me 10 games with white and I guarantee you I'll draw at least once with Fritz at any time control above 5 minutes.> what is your rating, and what version of fritz are you talking about? |
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Mar-12-07 | | geraldo8187: for those people who say singh's lackluster performances recently prove that he was cheating, i'd just like to say that it is a little harder to concentrate when you get searched before every game and you know that people will be looking at every one of your moves with suspicion and plugging it into a computer to see if it matches |
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