Mar-10-23
 | | jnpope: Found by User: mifralu. This game is missing from the tournament book put out by Vlastimil Fiala. |
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| Mar-12-23 | | Chessist: This score does not fit with Hoffer's description in The Field, 6 August 1898: "Burn and Albin stood equal in a blocked position with bishops of different colours, but there being still two rooks each on the board, and an isolated bishop's pawn of Albin's, Burn won that pawn, and the game afterwards." Where is that "isolated bishop's pawn"? |
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Mar-13-23
| | jnpope: Hoffer probably meant the isolated/backward knight's pawn, i.e. the pawn that sat on b4 before being captured by Burn. Everything else seems to line up: bishops of opposite color, two rooks each, blocked position. And coupled with the fact this game was published by <Het nieuws van den dag (kliene courant)>, 08 August 1898, p.10, and indicates it was played in the Cologne master tournament: "Internationale schaakwedstrijd te Keulen. Het volgende is eene partij uit het Meestertournooi" https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=... I'll take the published game score over Hoffer's description in this case. About the only ding I'd give it is for the typesetter botching Burn's name to Baru. |
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| Mar-13-23 | | Chessist: Sorry, but there are no "bishops on different colours", as Burn had both bishops up to move 54. Definitely the first new discovery of a master tournament game from that tournament for more than 20 years. |
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Mar-13-23
| | jnpope: You are correct. My mind converted the same color bishop vs the knight as a wash leaving the opposite color bishops. Perhaps the same thing happened to Hoffer! |
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Mar-13-23
| | jnpope: <Definitely the first new discovery of a master tournament game from that tournament for more than 20 years.> That's what I thought, but there are also 3 additional von Popiel games that turned up since Fiala's book was published in 1997. So that's four new games in the last 20 years. |
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| Mar-13-23 | | Chessist: The von Popiel games turned up in Quarterly for Chess History, Winter 4/2000 (probably published a little later), p. 334/5, taken from Tygodnik Szachowy 1899. They have been known from the Megabase for a long time. Where did the Dutch newspaper get the score from? By a Dutch participant from one of the side tournaments? Or at least from a previously unknown British source - considering that Burn was Englishman? |
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| Mar-16-23 | | stone free or die: The game was played on the 3rd, and possibly adjourned (do we have info on this?). <chessist> The score was published on the 10th, so it's unlikely to have traveled to England and back to the continent in so short a time. The question is - who was the chess columnist for <1898-08-08 - Het Nieuws Van Den Dag Maandag - p10> https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/v... This newspaper is a good source of games for Colgne (well, for a newspaper it is), having six games that I could find. Fiala might have missed this one because of the name screw-up (i.e. Baru for Burn), but who knows. Am I correct in saying that Fiala didn't list the various sources for the games with each games score in his book? (Unlike modern historians like Harding, etc.) |
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Mar-16-23
| | jnpope: <Am I correct in saying that Fiala didn't list the various sources for the games with each games score in his book? (Unlike modern historians like Harding, etc.)> Well, Fiala does cite a source for _most_ of the games individually but he definitely didn't do it for all the games. |
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| Mar-16-23 | | Chessist: Bachmann, Schach-Jahrbuch für 1892/93, p.75:
<Amsterdam. W. im ill. Sonntagsblatt von Nieuws van den dag; R E. van Dien (92 Terwogt)>
W. = Weekly
R = Editorial staff ("Redaktion") |
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| Mar-16-23 | | Chessist: Bachmann, Schach-Jahrbuch für 1899/1900, p. 83:
<Amsterdam. W. im Zondagsblad van Het Nieuws van den Dag; R W. M. Terwogt)>
W. = Weekly
R = Editorial staff ("Redaktion") |
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| Mar-17-23 | | stone free or die: Good finds <chessist>. I mostly know him for his variuous books, and always thought his work was mostly in Germany. |
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| Mar-17-23 | | Chessist: The Field, 6 August 1898, published another game played in round 3 on August 3 (Charousek-Schlechter), therefore it is not unlikely that the score of Burn-Albin traveled to England and back to the other side of the canal in so short a time. Why shouldn't a Saturday newspaper from England have been available on Sunday in the Netherlands so it could be quoted in a dutch daily on Monday? |
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| Mar-17-23 | | stone free or die: <Chessist> well, my experience from other researches is that the lag tends to be "long-ish" when one publication is cribbing from another. But there's also this to consider - the Dutch source wasn't from the 10th but from the 8th. https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/v... I apologize for the inaccuracy in my post above, where I say it was from the 10th and immediately after the 8th. (I had my source clippings mislabeled - caught the error when pulling the href in the post - but forgot to correct my opening paragraph.) |
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| Mar-17-23 | | Chessist: I had already taken that into account.
Appeared somewhere in England on Saturday, in a Dutch newspaper on Monday - why not? |
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| Mar-17-23 | | stone free or die: It's possible, but how likely?
E.g. can you find the same correlation for all the other games found in the Dutch <Het Nieuws Van Den Dag Maandag> with <The Field>? And just to be a bit explicit - was Bachman the columnist for <HNvdDM>? Well, whoever was the columnist, they might have a direct connection to the German Congress same as Hoffer (who I think was editor for <The Field> then, wasn't he?). I think with the limited data we have, it hard to pin down exactly how the information flowed out of Cologne. (Though it's fairly safe to say that Chigorin, Popiel, and Charousek had a hand in publishing some of their games from this tournament after its finish) |
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| Mar-17-23 | | Chessist: I do not know which games were published in Het Nieuws ...
Columnists were E. van Dien and W. M. Terwogt, as stated above. |
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| Mar-17-23 | | Chessist: Albin-Charousek published in Het Nieuws ... on 10 August 1898 and in The Field on 13 August 1898. Albin again. Did he have any connections in the Netherlands? |
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| Mar-17-23 | | stone free or die: Yes, sorry <Chessist> but I should have posted my list of games from Dutch sources. The trouble is that I'm primarily interested in finding <≥ 1> source for the games, and might not have been methodical enough for the dups. I'll try to review this issue, and once again, stop by later with an update. I think it's useful to track this stuff for several reasons - one of which is to know which contemporaneous publication took the lead in coverage. I'm also interested in knowing who the chess columnists / editors were for all the chess columns, which is a daunting task to properly research. . |
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Kibitzing
