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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-24-10
 | | scormus: ... or resigning on move 31 ;-) |
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| Sep-24-10 | | Major Dude: Looks more like a Tuesday puzzle. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | EXIDE: Missed this one completely. Saw the pattern I needed to get to win, however could not see the queen intermediate moves. Tried Qh8, Ng5 but could not close. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | mworld: I got the game pattern startign with Qg5+, then playing RxB, with everything else the same. Don't have a computer with me, why would this line be so much more inferior to RxB first, then Qg5+? |
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| Sep-24-10 | | mworld: dont have a computer, meaning, i am not home with my engines |
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| Sep-24-10 | | kevin86: This one turned out easier than I expected-black is subject to a quick checkmate. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | mworld: i think everyone is missing <Jim's> post. The way I understand it, the game continuation is not the right answer... |
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| Sep-24-10 | | twin phoenix: I started with 28. Q-g5+,K-g7 29. Rxe6 which appears to be winning. Some seem to indicate Q first + is mistake but have no evidence. Secondly, the rook must now be taken as the white queen prevents mate at g2 if 29 Q or RxF2? the rook can just run away....this is prolly blacks best line however because takes the rook leads to mate or even worse material disadvantage. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | bengalcat47: The actual game continuation is quite pretty, with Black only able to move
31...Kh5, after which g4 is mate! It's always nice to see such a prosaic finish as a Pawn giving mate! |
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Sep-24-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: As discussed earlier, kibitzers need to be aware that 28 Rxe6 does not work because of the saving 28...Qxf2.
click for larger viewThe mate in one threat by black means that white now has to find a way to win without leaving g2 unprotected, which he can't do. A good try by white is after 28 Rxe6 Qxf2 29 Qf5+ Kg7 30 Rf6, as proposed/discussed by <franksp> and <Quentinc>.
click for larger viewWhite looks in good shape. He is up a piece and his knight is now protected. However, black fortunately has the resource 30…h6.
click for larger viewWhite now has terrible choices. If he moves the queen off of the g file he get mated. If he moves his queen to g4, then black’s king gobbles up the rook. His best choice is 31 Rxg6+, giving up the rook after 31…fxg6, setting up a perpetual after 32 Qe7+. 
click for larger view |
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Sep-24-10
 | | chrisowen: Plugged in the gizzards me hearty. Black king is a gent. Cooperation of pawn take allows falling queen dance two stroke mate after Kh6. Jacoby at wrist missed law a Qxf2 that draw. Rook jim bob wing rem lap up cleric e6. A knee jerk reaction black burn ring here Qe5+ it dominate. Wakens pit lady lodge giant three brushes Qg5 Qe7 Qf8 tick bag the owls ra2 qf1 they seem without points you will gather until, doors light I detail rxe? |
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| Sep-24-10 | | MiCrooks: I too saw that Rxe6 (the obvious first choice for a CG puzzle) failed to Qxf2, but I thought I could finess it with Qg5+ first, then after Kg7 Ne5 but Qxf2 forced and Rxf2 is better. The true finess was Qf4+ where White repositions the Q on the fourth rank freeing key spots for the Knight before playing Rxe6. Kg7, Qd4+ and if Kh6 then Qh4+ Kg7 Rxe6 which now works. |
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Sep-24-10
| | Jimfromprovidence: The other issue in this puzzle is why is 28 Qf4+ winning but not 28 Qg5+. As <MiCrooks> stated, it comes down to white’s ability to check on the h file. After 28 Qf4+ Kg7 29 Qd4+ if black tries 29…Kh6, white has 30 Qh4+.
click for larger viewAfter 30…Kg7 white now has attacking chances like 31 Ng5 (seeing Qxh7+). With 28 Qg5+, if white keeps checking on e5 and g5, black’s king can just shuffle between g7 and h6. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | tinchoracing: Well done, <Jimfromprovidence>! |
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| Sep-24-10 | | WhenHarryMetSally: Brilliant finish! |
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| Sep-24-10 | | PeterB: Another solution: 28.Qf4+ Kg7 (other moves lose) and then 29.Qd4+! Kh6 and 30.Rc5, threatening 31Rh5+, leads to mate. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | VincentL: <Jimfromprovidence>Thank you for the lucid account of what is involved here. This was a good puzzle (and certainly not Tuesday level as one kibitzer commented). |
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| Sep-24-10 | | mworld: <Jim> thank you for that. So Qg5+ doesn't work first before RxB, simply because RxB doesn't work in the first place :) |
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| Sep-24-10 | | Fezzik: Earlier, I said that I missed the solution. The game itself was pretty but flawed. I found 28.Qf4 Kg7 Qd4 Kh6 Qh4, but it didn't seem as powerful as the game continuation. I'm almost happy there was a flaw in the main line for the egotistical reason that I was right. Unfortunately, I was only lucky. What a great puzzle! Thanks for the object lesson in calculation! |
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Sep-24-10
 | | mahmoudkubba: Even though it is a nice game on Fri. I wonder if the Cartage-Roma final war. One of the main things connected to that is that the b. q and r are deep inside the w lands leaving the k facing the death trouble alone especially after the easy sacrifice of the w rock with the b bishop. This really gives me hope of the following principle (Little laugh if it is a laugh and really serious if it is serious): If the Cartage people were so bad and the Romans had a good reason to destroy this capital for ever that the new Cartage is in fact little far away from the old one even both r ancient history i.e. the destroyed one and the new one according to my knowledge of the matter(s) then this game may be the one representing and showing and/or might be what was really played at that time. And the most funniest thing is: Who knows if history is usually in parallels that this game (or the benefit of it) is really played only in the 20th century bet. the two above mentioned players and really what did happen or what will happen bet. the Romans and the city of Cartage. (Just a thought really depending that goodness will and shall win at the final endings). <<<(HaHaHa) AND/OR (!!)>>> |
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| Sep-24-10 | | wals: Had the right moves in the wrong order.
Analysis Rybka 4x64:
Black: minor error. depth 20: time 4 min
(+0.59):21...Ne4.
Best,
1. = (0.03): 12...Bg4 13.h3 Bf5 14.Rac1 b6 15.Bd3
2. = (0.07): 12...Bf5 13.Qc1 Ne4 14.Nd5 Ne5 15.Nxe5 Bxe5 16.Bxe5 Rxe5 17.Bd3 Nc5 18.Bxf5 Rxf5 19.f3 c6 20.e4 Rh5 21.Nf4 Re5 22.Qd2 Qf6 23.Nd3 Nxd3 24.Qxd3 Rd8 25.Rac1 Black: minor error: depth 20: time 4 min:
(  1.06):15...Be6.
Best,
1.  (0.75): 15...Re6 16.Nd4 Rf6 17.Nb5 Nb4 18.Qc3 Bxb5 19.Bxb5 Na6 20.cxd6 cxd6 21.Rac1 Nc5 22.Bc4 Rc8 23.Bd5 b6 24.a3 Rc7 25.f3 Ne6 26.Bc4 Rc8 27.Qd2 2. (0.99): 15...Bf5 16.Qc3+ Qf6 17.Qxf6+ Kxf6[] 18.cxd6 cxd6 19.Bd3 Re6 20.Bc4 d5 21.Bxd5 Rd6 22.Bxc6 Rxc6 23.Nd4 Rc7 24.Nb5 Rd7 25.Rxd7 Bxd7 26.Nd6 a4 27.b4 b5 28.Rc1 Rd8 29.Nb7 Rc8 30.Nc5 Black: major error: depth 21: 14 min:
(+9.27):26...Qf1.
Best,
1. (1.55): 26...Qd5 27.Nd4 Ra7 28.Qb8 Rd7 29.Qb6 Re7 30.Qb2 Kh6 31.Qb4 Qe5+ 32.g3 Qf6 33.f4 Kg7 34.e4 Ra7 35.e5 Qe7 36.Qxe7 Rxe7 2. (2.08): 26...Qd8 27.Ng5 Qf6 28.Nxe6+ fxe6 29.Rc7+ Kh6 30.f3 Ra5 31.Rxh7+ Kxh7 32.Qc7+ Qg7 White: major error: depth 22: 5 min:
(=0.00):Rxe6.
Best,
1. (9.27): 28.Qf4+ Kg7[] 29.Qd4+[] Kg8 30.Rxe6 Ra8 31.Re7[] Qb5 32.Ne5[] Qa4 33.Qc5 Qa3 34.Qc7[] Qxe7 35.Qxe7 Rf8[] 36.Qf6[] h6 37.Qe7 h5 38.Qf6 Kh7 39.Nxf7 Ra8 40.Ne5 Rg8 2. (1.03): 28.Qg5+ Kg7 29.Nd4[] Rxf2[] 30.Nxe6+ fxe6 31.Rxe6 Rf7 32.Re7 Rxe7 33.Qxe7+ Kh6 34.Qh4+ Kg7 35.Qd4+ Kg8 36.Qd8+ Kg7 37.Qc7+ Kg8 38.Qb8+ Kg7 39.Qe5+ Kg8 40.Qe8+ Kg7 41.Qd7+ Kg8 42.Qd5+ Kg7 43.Qb7+ Black: major error: depth 25: 3 min:
(+8.81):28...fxe6.
Best,
1. = (0.00): 28...Qxf2 29.Qg5+ Kg7 30.Qf6+ Kh6[] 31.Qf4+ Kg7[] 32.Qd4+ Kh6[] 33.Qg4 fxe6 34.Qg5+ Kg7[] 35.Qe7+ Kg8 36.Qe8+ Kg7[] 37.Qe7+[] Kg8 38.Qe8+ Kg7[] 39.Qe7+[] Kg8 40.Qe8+ Kg7[] 41.Qe7+[] Kg8 42.Qe8+ Kg7[] 43.Qe7+[] Kg8 Black:30...Kh6 +#2. could have been dragged out by,
1. (8.00): 30...Kg8 31.Qxe6+ Kg7 32.Qxa2 Qb5 33.Qa7+ Kf8 34.Qa3+ Ke8 35.Qa8+ Kd7 36.Qa7+ Kd6 37.Qxh7[] Qf5 38.Qg7 Qc2 39.Qf8+ Kc7 40.Ne5 g5 41.Qg7+ Kd6 42.Qf6+[] Kc7 43.Kg3 Kb7 44.Qxg5 Qc7 45.Qf5 Kb8 |
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Sep-24-10
| | scormus: <Jim> right on, you deserve !! I considered 28 Qf4+ but I didnt pursue it further because I thought 28 Rxe6 was winning so clearly. Even after 28 ... Qxc2 surely 29 Qg5+ Kg7 30 Rf6 and W is fine, yes? No. I completely overlooked 30 .... h6! (Just the way I did in games.) A southpaw counterpuncher's shot if ever I saw (was hit by) one. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | BOSTER: <LMAJ> <28.Rxe6 looks like a killer>, this is not a deep thought.
Idea with 28.Rxe6 is nice,but it is refuted by 28...Qxf2.
<jim>, <patzer2> <the only clear way for white to win 28.Qf4+ Kg7 29.Qd4+ Kg8 30.Rxe6.> What is wrong with 29...Kh6?
If 30.Rxe6 Qxf2 ,if 30. Qh4+ Kg7 31.Rxe6 Rxf2. |
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| Sep-24-10 | | jheiner: I had a different continuation. Please refute as I didn't dig in too deeply. 26.Rxe6 fxe6
27.Ng5 (threatens Nf7#) Ra7
[27...Kh5 28.Nf7+ Kh4 29.g3#]
28.Nxe6...29.Qg5# coming.
This is not the most forcing line, so perhaps I shouldn't get credit (and it could have a refutation I am missing which is partly the reason for this post), however it's also my way of saying just how sunk Black is. |
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| Sep-25-10 | | Terry McCracken: < LIFE Master AJ: Hmmm Fritz 12 shows that 28...QxP/f2 draws ... time to read the other kibitzes> Yes, Rxe6 is a blunder. Qxf2= |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 28.Rxe6