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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-06-10 | | lost in space: <Once>, try 19. Nxg6 Nxd4 |
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| Feb-06-10 | | Archerforthelord: 15. Nxe6 Ne5 is beautiful... congrats to whoever suggested that first |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: PS. I would just like to add that one of the main reasons that 18. Rh3!! is so amazing is because of the line 18. Rh3!! Nxb3 19. Qh7+ Kf8 20. Rf3+ Ke8 [20...Ke7 21. Ba3+! c5 (21...Nc5 22. Bxc5+ bxc5 23. Qxg7+ Kd6 24. Rd1+ winning) 22. Qxg7+ Kd6 23. Rd1+ wins] 21. Qg6+ Ke7 22. Ba3+ wins. LTJ |
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| Feb-06-10 | | nuwanda:
hi <LoveThatJoker>,
i totally agree with what you said about seeing 18.Rh3 in advance. i assume nobody here did, and even Pia didnt see that clearly. but i think thats not necessary. all her(your) chess expirience and intuition tells her(you) that in a position like that (with an open king and four pieces to attack) there will be strong moves. and there are. and 18.Rh3, nice as it is, is not the only winning move in that position. greets |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: <Archerforthelord: 15. Nxe6 Ne5 is beautiful... congrats to whoever suggested that first> Correct me if I'm wrong but after 15. Nxe6! Ne5 doesn't White have 16. Nxd8 Nd3+ 17. Kd2 Nxf2 18. Nxf7! Nxd1 [18...Kf8 19. Qf3 Nxe5+ 20. Kc2 Qf5 (best) 21. Qxf5 gxf5 22. Ng5 when White emerges a Rook up] 19. Ne5+ and 20. Nxd7+? I have positive feelings that White is winning here...And I haven't consulted with Fritz yet! LTJ |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: <nuwanda:
hi <LoveThatJoker>,
i totally agree with what you said about seeing 18.Rh3 in advance. i assume nobody here did, and even Pia didnt see that clearly. but i think thats not necessary. all her(your) chess expirience and intuition tells her(you) that in a position like that (with an open king and four pieces to attack) there will be strong moves. and there are. and 18.Rh3, nice as it is, is not the only winning move in that position. greets>
Hi nuwanda. Thanks for your input.
I of course don't know whether Pia Cramling saw 18. Rh3!! in advance - and I wouldn't be so narrow-minded to assume that she didn't either...maybe she did! However, even if there are other good moves in that position, I would have to say that 18. Rh3!! is <by far> the best practical choice. Cheers,
LTJ |
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| Feb-06-10 | | Samagonka: Quite doable if you have the time and patience to work out the moves. Anyhow, the chess genius displayed by the likes of <dzechiel> on this site never ceases to amaze and inspire me. |
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Feb-06-10
 | | Domdaniel: I think White has to be prepared to sac the Queen in the line given by <JimfromProvidence>: 15.Nxe6 Ne5 16.Nxd8 Nd3+ 17.Qxd3 Bxd3 18.Nxf7 ... the threat of discovered check is now so strong that Black is practically forced to play 18...Kf8, when 19.Ba3+ c5 20.0-0-0 keeps the pressure on. Nominally R+B (and currently a couple of pawns) for the Queen, but White has excellent coordination. The Black Queen is short of good squares, and white has plenty of firepower. The only real alternative, a simpler line such as 15.Nxe6 Ne5 16.dxe5 Qxd1+ 17.Bxd1 fxe6 18.f4 looks like a bargain for Black -- a nice position at the cost of a pawn, and all immediate threats snuffed out. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | patzer2: For today's Saturday puzzle solution, the demolition 15. Nxe6!! gives GM Pia Cramling a decisive assault on her opponent's weakened King position. Interestingly, the tempting alternative 15. Nxg6?! does not transpose, but instead requies White to fight to maintain equality after 15. Nxg6?! Nxd4! 16. cxd4 Qxd4 17. Qxd4 Bxd4 18. Ne7+ Kf8 19. Nd5! exd5 (
19... Bxa1 20. Bh6+ Bg7 21. Nxc7 Bxh6 22. Rxh6 Bb7 23. Nxa8 = ) 20. Bh6+ Ke8 21. O-O-O dxe4 = (0.00 per Fritz 10, 18-depth, 2 CPU). The winning followup 18. Rh3!, which is the main point of the original sham sacrifice, is certainly impressive. However, even stronger is 18. cxd4! Qxd4 19. Rh3! Qf6 (19... Qxa1 20. Bxe6+ Bxe6 21. Qxe6+ Kf8 22. Rf3+ Bf6 23. Rxf6+ Qxf6 24. Qxf6+ Kg8 25. Bh6 Rd7
26. Qe6+  ) 20. Qh7+ Kf7 21. Rf3 . |
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| Feb-06-10 | | cyclon: I come up wit the suggestion (without excluding possibility for better ines); 15.Nxe6 (Qg4 gives slightly too slow impression, Black might get counter-play by -Nxd4 but that's a different story) -fxe6 (-Re8 16.Ng5 Nd8 [-Re7? 17.Ba3] 17.Qf3 White seems to have relatively good prospects besides an extra-pawn) 16.Qg4 and NOW; -Re8 (-Nxd4 17.cxd4 Black's in serious trouble) 17.Qxg6, with moves like Rh3, Qh7+ in sight, -WQB can be developed either on c1-a3, or c1-h6 diagonal according to need. If now (after 17.Qxg6) f.e. -Nxd4 18.cxd4 and I think White's got the edge, because f.e. exchange sacrifice -Qxd4 19.Bxe6+ Rxe6 20.Qxe6+ Kf8 21.Rh3 is horrendous for Black. In general, Black seems to face very difficult, if not impossible defending task. Then, another possible line after 15.Nxe6 fxe6 16.Qg4 seems to be -Kf7, for which I think 17.Rh3 is a quite proper move and NOW; -Bf6 (-Qe7 18.Ba3 seems to speed the win, or -Rh8 19.Rf3+ looks good. BKnight cannot go to -e7 and -Bf8 gets 18.Bg5) 18.e5 (Rh7+ Bg7 19.Bh6 Rg8 doesn't quite seem to be "that") and if here (after 18.e5) -Nxe5 19.dxe5 ( a risky looking Rh7+ should be studied deeper ) -Bxe5 20.Rh7+ Bg7 21.Bh6 Rg8 ( -Qd3 fails to 22.Rxg7+ Kf8 23.Rd7+) 22.Qf3+ Ke7 and now either 23.Bxg7, or maybe even better 23.Bg5+ should be decisive. Without pc-program it´s interesting, tiring, fascinating, incorrect etc. but at least I DID IT. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: <Domdaniel: I think White has to be prepared to sac the Queen in the line given by <JimfromProvidence>: 15.Nxe6 Ne5 16.Nxd8 Nd3+ 17.Qxd3 Bxd3 18.Nxf7 ... the threat of discovered check is now so strong that Black is practically forced to play 18...Kf8, when 19.Ba3+ c5 20.0-0-0 keeps the pressure on. Nominally R+B (and currently a couple of pawns) for the Queen, but White has excellent coordination. The Black Queen is short of good squares, and white has plenty of firepower. The only real alternative, a simpler line such as 15.Nxe6 Ne5 16.dxe5 Qxd1+ 17.Bxd1 fxe6 18.f4 looks like a bargain for Black -- a nice position at the cost of a pawn, and all immediate threats snuffed out.> I actually already came up with a line that I'm thinking is good for white after 15. Nxe6 Ne5. Here it is again,
<Archerforthelord: 15. Nxe6 Ne5 is beautiful... congrats to whoever suggested that first> Correct me if I'm wrong but after 15. Nxe6! Ne5 doesn't White have 16. Nxd8 Nd3+ 17. Kd2 Nxf2 18. Nxf7! Nxd1 [18...Kf8 19. Qf3 Nxe5+ 20. Kc2 Qf5 (best) 21. Qxf5 gxf5 22. Ng5 when White emerges a Rook up] 19. Ne5+ and 20. Nxd7+? I have positive feelings that White is winning here...And I haven't consulted with Fritz yet! LTJ |
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| Feb-06-10 | | cyclon: After seeing the solution, definitely amazing play by White! I didn´t consider the defence 18. -Bc8 and it's implications (propably it doesn´t alter things very much), but the point is that White played it differently than I thought -with STYLE- without EVEN having to re-capture on d4. A really good study! |
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| Feb-06-10 | | ZZer: Does anyone know a link where I can download a FREE software to practice in positions like the ones that appear in CG puzzles? |
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| Feb-06-10 | | cyclon: <LoveThatJoker:> It seems that you have just refuted a line proposed here by some kibitzers by quite complicated -but (rather) correct line regarding (15.Nxe6) -Ne5. This move (15. -Ne5) didn't occurred (at least) to me in analysis and thank you for showing why it should not have been! |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: <cyclon: <LoveThatJoker:> It seems that you have just refuted a line proposed here by some kibitzers by quite complicated -but (rather) correct line regarding (15.Nxe6) -Ne5. This move (15. -Ne5) didn't occurred (at least) to me in analysis and thank you for showing why it should not have been!> Thanks for your note, cyclon. Although I'm open to hearing what other kibitzers have to say on this line as well, I'm feeling good about it thus far. Not bad for blindfold, eh? I'm feeling like Steinitz or Kasparov right now! LTJ |
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| Feb-06-10 | | Grilo: White takes adavntage of the overloaded pawn of f7. It's defending both the e6 and g6 pawns, but can't handle both at the same time. The sacrifice of 15.Nxe6 fragilizes the g6 pawn, and threatens 16.Nxd8. Black, inadvertently, doesn't want to lose a rook for a knight, but also des'nt want to lose hold of the queen and rook prepared to ram down the d-file. So black captures the knight with 15...fxe6. White, happy to see its plan working, drives the queen to the kingside, with 16.Qg4, forking both weak, isolated e6 and g6 pawns. White's immediate threat here is 17.Bxe6, forking black's royal family and gaining a queen for a bishop. Black can't let it happen, so he installed another defender to e6, with 16...Bc8, abandonig g6 to its own luck. After 17.Qxg6, white has pinned the black bishop and has many attacks possibilities. Both bsihops are very active, being able to cut through the diagonals and reaching the black king. The h1 rook is ready to join the attack, as it did after the move 18.Rh3. Personally, I would have resigned here. But black attempts one final counter-attack, in a desperate attempt to make white fall back to protect material. Black plays 17...Nxd4, but it's useless. White ignores it and carries on its fatal blow. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: PS. I also want to say that Capablanca was a killer tactician. I'm kinda feeling like him too right now!
;) LTJ |
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Feb-06-10
 | | scormus: My compliments to whoever found 15 ... Ne5! Now its really interesting. Tempting for white to play 17. Kd2 but black doesnt have to reply Nxf2. So 17. Qxd3 seems necessary. <Domdaniel> good call, I followed the same line but overlooked 0-0-0! As you say, great coordination of the white pieces and plenty for black to worry about on the d-file. What a brilliant position. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | Stream118: In the Ne5 line that has been proposed I think that the queen sack by <JimFromProvince> is a direct refutation, following his line to 0-0-0 is brilliance and looks to be a clear win, even if 19...Ke8, then still 20.0-0-0! is crushing. For eg. 20...Bxe4 21.Rhe1 followed by f3 and the B is lost If 20...Bb5 then 21.Rh7 Ba4 22.Ne5 wins more material and if 20...Bf6 21. e5 followed by Rh8 as white already has a mating net around the black king! I think the game would have been even better if some of these variations posted here were played instead |
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| Feb-06-10 | | cyclon: <scormus: Tempting for white to play 17. Kd2 / So 17. Qxd3 seems necessary.> Though this line (15.Nxe6) -Ne5 16.Nxd8 Nd3+, was not considered by me at all, it still should be seriously taken. For some strange "hunch", 17.Qxd3 doesn't impress as fully convincing and appealing to me but only seemingly, unless you can prove some serious winning/advantage-lines for White. Indeed, by 17.Kd2 it's true that Black doesn't have to play -Nxf2, but WHAT then?. For example -Rxd8 (what convincing ENOUGH instead?) 18.Qf3 and DESPITE of slightly awkward position of WKing, he still has the exchange and a pawn plus (for the moment). It would be nice to know some CONVINCING ideas for Black to proceed succesfully. After 16. -Nd3+ 17.Kd2, I prefer White chances. |
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Feb-06-10
| | Domdaniel: <LoveThatJoker> -- <Correct me if I'm wrong but after 15. Nxe6! Ne5 doesn't White have 16. Nxd8 Nd3+ 17. Kd2 Nxf2 18. Nxf7! Nxd1 [18...Kf8 19. Qf3 Nxe5+ 20. Kc2 Qf5 (best) 21. Qxf5 gxf5 22. Ng5 when White emerges a Rook up] 19. Ne5+ and 20. Nxd7+?> Your line is certainly very good for White, but as <Scormus> observes Black doesn't have to play 17...Nxf2. Simply 17...Rxd8 is better. Black has now sacrificed the exchange - but threatens to win it back with ...Nxf2, and has great compensation. The White King interferes with the Bc1 and is vulnerable to blows like ...c5, and the threat to f7 is largely neutralized. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | patzer2: <Jimfromprovidence>'s suggestion of 15...Ne5!? as a defense presents a bit of difficulty in solving today's puzzle. However, after 15. Nxe6!!, Fritz 10 quickily comes up with the winning line: 15... Ne5!? 16. Nxd8 Nd3+
click for larger view(White to move and win)
17. Qxd3!! Bxd3 18. Nxf7 Kf8 (18...
Qe7 19. Ne5+ Kf8 20. Nxg6+ ) 19. Ba3+ c5 20. O-O-O Qb5 21. Nd6 Qa6 22. Kb2 Rd8 23. dxc5 bxc5 24. Bxc5 Rxd6 25. Bxd6+ Qxd6 26. Rh3 (+4.50 @ 18 depth, 2-cpu). |
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| Feb-06-10 | | David2009: Saturday's puzzle P Cramling vs S Kindermann, 1991 White 15? 15 Nh5 looks promising. Taking is dangerous for Black: 15...gxh5 and now either 16 Ba3 followed by Qxh5 or 16 Qxh5 (threatening Ba3) Qd6 17 e5 with a promising attack.
In practice I would play the sacrifice and think in Black's time. Over the board, Black would no doubt refuse the sacrifice, but this is also dangerous: 15...Bf8 is impossible
because of the N fork on f6, whilst 15...Bh8 allows 16 Bg5. There are too many possibilities to analyse everything, let's play
15 Nh5 and sort it out over the board. Time to check:
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White preferred 15.Nxe6 fxe6 16.Qg4. Time to check my line against Crafty:
click for larger view Cramling vs Kindermann 1991, 15? http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... Well, Crafty busts my sacrifice wide open: 15 Nh5 gxh5! 16 Ba3 Nxd5! 17 cxd4 Qc6! 18 Qc2 (Black has mating threats) Qxc2
19 Bxc2 Bxd4 20 0-0-0 Bxf2 21 Rxh5 Rxd1+ 22 Bxd1 c5 and Black is two pawns up. If instead 16 Qxh5 Qd6 17 e5!? Nxe5! 18 dxe5 Qd3
and I am busted - 
click for larger view Qf3 is forced and I will be two pawns down. Time to enjoy the game continuation. I leave it to others to win this position against Crafty (if they can) using the on-line link above.
Crafty deviates from Black's defence with 16...Re8 17.Qxg6 Na5 18.Rh3 Nc4. One continuation is 19.Qh7+ Kf8 20.Rf3+ Ke7 21.Qxg7+ Kd8
22.Bg5+ Kc8 23.Rf7 Qc6 and if 24.0-0-0 Kb7. Black is threatening Nd6 consolidating and counter-attacking. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | patzer3844: am i the only one that feels that this was an easy saturday puzzle?ok,the sacrifice requires a lot moves ahead to compensate but in my patzer eye Ne6 was the first move to consider since the f7 pawn is over loaded,be6 is a royal fork(after Qg4),and the black fortress is in jeopardy...of course ididnt figure out all the possible variations after Qg4 but i would have played Ne6 even OTB and as my nickname says i am only patzer!!!I figured out the solution without using a board as always.I would like some puzzles with silent moves...i think they are more difficult to find than sacrifices |
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| Feb-06-10 | | CruyffTurn: <patzer3844> Nope, I found it in seconds - it was the first thing I looked at. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 15.Nxe6