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| Jul-03-08 | | hoodrobin:  <kwgurge: It could!> Agreed. 21...Ba4 22.Qd1 (or Ra2) was the suggested response.<benjinathan> I was just trying to say, in my bad English and poor chess, that studying a line and its strategy helps should a different line appear with the same strategic idea. As for the "TCE/hr/TommyC law" it is a joke. It was Steinitz or Lasker or Gioachino Greco the first who wrote this "law" I think. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | crawfb5: <hoodrobin: As for the "TCE/hr/TommyC law" it is a joke. It was Steinitz or Lasker or Gioachino Greco the first who wrote this "law" I think.> The joke came through in your English just fine. It's as good a theory as any. :-) |
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| Jul-03-08 | | ronpaz1:  the line 21...Ba4 22.Ra2 Nf7 23.Nf2 is complex, and I am sure there are mistakes at the following analysis, but since this is looks like critical line and only 15 hours left, I will post it:
23...h5 (I think that 23...Nh4 24.Be2 (on 24.Bd1 we can answer Qb6) will lead eventually to the same position. 23...Qd8 seems like better option) 24.Nh3 (24.g4 Nh4 and 25...Qd8 looks good for Black) Qc7 (start the fight on e5 square. it seems that 24...Qb6 25.Kh1 doesn't change much) 25.g3 (after 25.Ng5 NxN 26.fxN Bc6 White can't stop 27...e5) Bc6 (25...Nd6 26.Rf2) 26.Rf2 N5d6 27.Ng5 NxN 28.fxN Ne4 29.BxN dxBcan we hold this position? I am not sure.
it is interesting to follow this line without the moves Ba4 and Ra2 and to see what are the diferences. so far I failed to find significant improvement. for example: 21...Nf7 22.Nf2 h5 23.Nh3 Qc7 24.g3 N5d6 (try to take advantege from the knight location at h3) 25.Bg2 Ne4 26.BxN d5xB 27.Ng5 with almost the same position |
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Jul-03-08
 | | Gypsy: < DEEPERGRAY: After our move Ba4
what if this happens
Pawn G4 Nd6
Rc1 Ndf7.
Looks winning for white but I can't figure it out how. It seems our position is resilent
>
After <21...Ba4>, the <22.g4...> looks already quite doubly edged for White, because White king cover is getting rather extended and because Black heavy pieces can realy make it felt. <22...Nd6> is semi-forced, but quite strong because of e4 (Bf3 kind of has to keep watching it). <23.Rc1> Maybe stronger than 23.Ra2, maybe not. 
click for larger viewBlack to play.
At this point, I think the suggested 23...Nf7 would be a misstep. I think the knight ought to stay put on d8 (for now at least) and keep protecting e6 (it also protects b7). How is White to attack the e6? Since neither Bf3 nor Nh3 can mount any attack upon it. Therefore any attacks against e6 have to be caried by either Q and or R. Ergo sum, one light piece of Black is probably sufficient to hold the e6 and White would have to sacrifice good material to force his will. As <Artar> sais, time has come to fight for initative. And for us that means to regroup our heavy artilery and see if we can open a file or two.
All purpose good moves for that purpose are <Kh7> and <Qc7>. The former move gets our king out of the staging area a bit and the king also lends a hand in protecting the g6-h6 pawns. The latter move starts the regrouping of the arilery. Before I let go of this note, I want to highlight the following point. Have a look at the diagram and note that all our minor pieces are already playing their heart out: Nd8 is holding the defense almost singlehandedly, Nd6 fights for the centeral squares f5 and especially e4, and Ba4 is tying up White Q-side in general and the Rc1 in particular. Looking at it that way, one sees that the time indeed will have come to coordinate our heavy pieces. (Of course, I also wonder whether Whites will sense the latent dangers and forego the g4 push.) |
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| Jul-03-08 | | hoodrobin: <crawfb5> Thanks! |
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| Jul-03-08 | | Artar1: I would like to caution everyone that we cannot afford to play too passively. We need to probe White's position from time to time to keep the first player off balance. I will post more. Currently, I am working on the GMT game. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | ronpaz1: after more check it seems to me that we should go for 21...Ba4 22.Ra2 Nf7 23.Nf2 Qd8 for example 24.Ng4 g5 we should be careful not to weakened the black squares.
to late now good night! |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <Dmaster995: Black may have an edge...> <The Chess Express: You've gotta love grandmasterly comments like this.> <crawfb5: Well, the board has four edges. I suppose we have to cede at least one of them to Black. :-)> LOL |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <crawfb5: In this sticky line: <21. Nh3 Nf7 22. Nf2 h5 23. g3 Ba4 24. Ra2 N7d625. Qe2 Qd8 (useful to guard the dark squares) 26. Rb2 b6 27. Bg2> Black's b-pawn should be on b6 in the diagram, not on b7> Got it. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <crawfb5: Almost all of the sticky lines assume 21...Nf7. Why do I think this means Team Black will play something else? :-)> I know. Perhaps there will still be some transpositional value. I'm starting to wonder whether I should just post analysis as the moves are played. It doesn't leave much time for campaigning, but it would sure save a lot of midnight oil. I felt last night's effort today at work. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <Funicular: im thinking of preparing g4, perhaps with Kh1.> You're not the only one ;)
<I really feel that strong positional moves will give us the chance of carrying out a crushing combination...> The g3 lines give us a safe positional advantage. The g4 lines let it all hang out. It's good to hear from you btw. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <hoodrobin: 21...Ba4 22.Qd1 (or Ra2) was the suggested response.> Make that 22. Qc1 and 22. Ra2. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | blue wave: 21.Ba4 Ra2 22.Nf2 h5 23.g4 hxg4 24.Nxg4 Nf7 25.Ne5 Qd8 26.Kh1 Qh4 27.Qxh4 Nxh4 any comments on this line? |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <crawfb5: 21. Nh3 Nf7 22. Nf2 h5 23. Kh1!? Ba4 (4.) 24. g4 hxg4 25. Nxg4 Qd8 26. Rb1 b6 <27. Bd1> Rh7 28. Ne5 Nxe5 29. fxe5 Kg7 30. Rg1 Reh8 31. Rg2 Qh4 32. Qxh4 Qxh4 33. Rf2 Rf8 34. Rf4 Nf5 unclear (1) not 32...Qxh4, but <32...Rxh4> (2) 34...Nf5? Isn't it already there?
(3) in the diagram, Black's King is on g8, but should be on g7> 32. Qxh4 Nxh4 is correct. 32. Rxh4 is bad because of 33. Bg5 ... 34. Bf6. Black's ♔ should indeed be on g7. I've fixed the sticky. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <acirce: As for moves we don't expect -- I know it has been suggested a few times, but I wonder why there is so little focus on 21..Ba4. Of course, it could also come later, as it does in several of the considered lines, but why couldn't it come now?> Yea, it could transpose into my 21. Nh3 Nf7 22. Nf2 h5 23. g3 <Ba4> 24. Qc1 N7d6 25. Bg2 Rf7 26. Re1 Rff8 27. Re2 Qc7 28. Qb2 b6 29. Rae1 Bd7  
click for larger viewNh3 ... Ng5 etc.
Watch them play 21. Rge7 next. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | crawfb5: <The Chess Express: <crawfb5: Almost all of the sticky lines assume 21...Nf7. Why do I think this means Team Black will play something else? :-)> I know. Perhaps there will still be some transpositional value. I'm starting to wonder whether I should just post analysis as the moves are played. It doesn't leave much time for campaigning, but it would sure save a lot of midnight oil. I felt last night's effort today at work.> We all appreciate your efforts, but no one here would blame you if you cut back when we're waiting on their move. It seems Team Black is thinking about the position differently than we are when there are reasonable alternatives. Time will tell who does a better job at that. There's a quote about half the thinking going on in a typical game being irrelevant, but nobody knows ahead of time which half it is. I can't put my finger on it at the moment (dim memory suggests someone like Nunn, but I could be wrong), as I am having hard drive issues on my main laptop at the moment. :-( |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: Well, tonight's an early night for me. At this point perhaps the biggest surprise would be for them to play something we expect :) |
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| Jul-03-08 | | The Chess Express: <crawfb5> Sounds about right. |
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| Jul-03-08 | | DEEPERGRAY: blue wave
Regarding your post
You have white two moves in a row
Ra2 then Na2
So I am not sure what you mean |
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| Jul-03-08 | | blue wave: Sorry Deepergray... your right. I'll try to fix that up... |
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| Jul-03-08 | | crawfb5: “Half the variations which are calculated in a tournament game turn out to be completely superfluous. Unfortunately, no one knows in advance which half” (Jan Timman) |
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| Jul-03-08 | | blue wave: 21..Ba4 22.Ra2 Nf7 23.Nf2 h5 24.g4 hxg4 25.Nxg4 Qd8 26.Ne5 Qh4 27.Qxh4 Nxh4.. hopefully that is without errors:) |
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| Jul-04-08 | | Eyal: <blue wave: 21..Ba4 22.Ra2 Nf7 23.Nf2 h5 24.g4 hxg4 25.Nxg4 Qd8 26.Ne5 Qh4 27.Qxh4 Nxh4.. hopefully that is without errors:)> Yeah, it seems definitely playable - e.g. 28.Bh1 g5; 28.Bg4 Nd6 aiming for Ne4. Once again, I don't think <g4> is the move we should be afraid of. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | ronpaz1: from my 2 last confusing posts, )which were written between 1 to 3 A.M), I suggest to check mainly the following claim: after 21...Ba4 22.Nf2 Qd8 23.Ng4 g5 Black is O.K. for example 24.Ne5 NxN 25.fxN(QxN) g4. I think that the strong (and secured!) knight at f5 will help us keep the balance. this variant BTW show that, for meeting Nf2, 21...Ba4 is probebly better then 21...Nf7 because in the latter if Black will play Ba4, White have several ways to protect c2, and else the White Rook is placed better in a1 then a2. |
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| Jul-04-08 | | DEEPERGRAY: i still think ra2 is not as good as rc1
why would white want a useless rook
if we take the pawn on a4 evenutally with our queen
a. if black doesnt prepare it with a6 black just gives the pawn back
b. if black doesnt mind losing too tempis
c. it give white time to regroup a kingside assault via black squaresthe bishop doesnt belong on a4 but temporarlly it hold a rooks attention we need to meet qh5 with queen d8 we cant do it if our knight on d8
our backward pawn is protected well enough
i am for nf7 if pawn on a4 can be taken by our bishop - distracting play to our strong side of the board i guess by our majority vote - survey says we cant get away with the A pawn capture or risk it by the way if anyone is interested i came up with a pretty cool hypothetical line
21...ph5
22 nf2 nf7
23 pg4 nh4
24 bd1 nh6
25 pf5 , n6 x pf5
26.p x knight, pe x p
and white gives back a piece or loses queen
cute no
if by all means we cant take the pawn moving to a4 lets block it if we can nf7 |
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