Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Emil Joseph Diemer vs Klaus Locher
Lindau (1948)
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00)  ·  1-0



Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 33 times; par: 26 [what's this?]

Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 7 more E J Diemer/K Locher games
sac: 17.Qh6+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: The Olga viewer allows you to get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" link on the lower right.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-13-14  dfcx: 17.Qh6+ must be the move.
A) 17...Kxh6? 18.Nxe6+! g5 19.Nxg5 Ne4
20. Nxf7+ Kg6 21.Rhf1 and black must lose a lot of material to stop mate.

click for larger view

B) 17...Kg8 is the better defense.
18.Rhf1 Bf8 19.Qh4 Nxe4 20.Nxe4 Qe5 and white is better but I do not see any quick win. And here Crafty rates white as +3.21.

click for larger view

Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: I came up with 17.Nxe6 fxe6 18.Qh6+ Kg8 19.Nxf6+ Bxf6, but after the smoke clears, white has no compensation for being down to 2 pawns to now a piece and pawn.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: After a couple of hours, Fritzie is calling it like this:

17. Rhf1 +5.42
17. Qh6+ +4.50
17. Nxf7 +4.17
17. Rdf1 +3.67
17. Nxe6 +2.78
17. Bd2 +2.31

But the lines are far more complicated than the game continuation.

All of which feels a little deflating. The game continuation is a minor sideline based on a mistake (17...Kxh6).

Dec-13-14  mistreaver: Saturday. White to play. Very difficult. 17.?
White's pieces are all pointing at the black king. Time to calculate 17 Nxf7!
This is very tempting, to destroy the shield around the king. I think black has to take the knight, moving the knight on f6 before is not possible due to the hanging bishop on e7.
So 17... Kxf7
Now white has many options. The most obvious is knight check, there is also the move g5 or the rook to f1 I am somehow inclined towards
18 Ng5+
Black should probably reply
18... Kg8
because 18... Ke8 19 Bxg6+ and then 20 Nxe6 is surely something he would like to avoid Hmm, now i don't see something that convincing for white and another idea fell on my mind. Can white go
17 Qh6+! on the first move?
17... Kxh6 18 Nxe6+ g5 19 N4xg5 seems to be devastating and if
17... Kg8
18 Nxf7 Kxf7 19 Ng5+ Kg8 20 Nxe6 is probably deadly
Time to check and see.
Yep, i think i calculated it more or less correctly, although one has to admit that practicaly every move wins for whtie in this position.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <GrandMaesterPycelle: Yes, I saw Qh6+, but didn't think it's the solution because black can avoid being a collaborator and play Kg8 after which I couldn't see a precise continuation.>

Same here.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <The game continuation is a minor sideline based on a mistake (17...Kxh6).> Well kinda, sort of a "mistake," but only in the sense that 17. Qh6+!! Kg8 puts up more resistance in a lost position.

Black is still busted after 17. Qh6+!! Kg8 18. Rhf1! , when play might continue 18...Bf8 19. Qh4 Qe5 20. Nxf7 Kxf7 21. g5 h6 22. gxf6 Qh5 23. Qg3 Ne5 24. Kb1 b6 25. Bd4 Nd7 26. Bc4 b5 27. Bxe6+ Kxe6 28. f7 Be7 29. Rde1 Kd5 30. Nc3+ Kxd4 31. Qe3+ Kc4 32. b3#.

The passive 15...Kg7? may be Black's biggest mistake. Instead, 15...Bxa6! to gives Black a big advantage due to the threat 15...Bxa6! 16. bxa3? Qxc3 .

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: This was surprisingly easy for a Saturday. White will mate by double check and black can do nothing about it.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: As <Once> notes, the computers give 17. Rhf1! as a slightly stronger move than the game continuation 17. Qh6+!!

However after computer "best play" of 17. Qh6+!! Kg8 18. Rhf1 , the winning idea is very similar to 17. Rhf1!

For example after 17. Rhf1! Qe5 18. Nxf7 Kxf7 19. g5 (diagram below)

click for larger view

we run into the same tactical theme (i.e. sham sacrifice of a Knight to create a winning pin and attack on the pinned piece with a pawn -- a.k.a. pin 'em and win'em) after 17. Qh6+ Kg8 18. Rhf1 Bf8 19. Qh4 Qe5 20. Nxf7 Kxf7 21. g5

click for larger view

In both positions, the computer (i.e. Fritz 12) gives White over a seven pawn plus winning advantage.

Dec-13-14  thegoldenband: <ahistoricity: Goldenband, could you post a continuation for 17...Kg8, 18 Nxf7? It's a fascinating position...>

It looks to me like White wins after 18...Kxf7 19. Ng5+ Kg8 (19...Ke8?? 20. Bxg6+ and mate) 20. Nxe6, with ideas of Rhf1, Bc4, and Bd4 that all overwhelm Black's defenses. But if Black plays 18...Nxe4 instead, I'm not so sure -- so it appears that 18. Rhf1 is the better move.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <kevin86: This was surprisingly easy for a Saturday. White will mate by double check and black can do nothing about it.> Well, actually he can. As <Hidden Skillz> posted in Aug 2009, Black can delay mate with 19...Ne5!? (diagram below)

click for larger view

As <Hidden Skillz> observes White wins after 19...Ne5!? 20. Nxf7+! Kg6 21. Rhf1! .

However, if White misses this sequence Black can breathe life back into this position.

For example 19...Ne5!? 20. Bxe4?? Bxg5 turns the tables and wins for Black.

And after 19...Ne5!? 20. Nxf7+ Kg6, White must avoid 21. Nxh8?? Kf6 =.

Dec-13-14  Dezaxa: 15... Bxa3 may be a little better than Kg7, but I suspect not much. After 16 Nce4 Be7 17 Kb1 White's attack resumes and the missing a pawn doesn't really matter. Black must have gone astray much earlier.
Dec-13-14  BOSTER: <patzer2 15...Bxa6>. Correct 15...Bxa3
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: Here is the position in the line 17 Qh6+ Kg8 18 Rhf1.

click for larger view

I guess the threat is 19 Bd4 followed by 20 Nxf6+ but the complications are too much for yours truly.

One example is showing the way forward after 18...Bf8 19 Qh4 Qe5 below.

click for larger view

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Boster> Thanks. I meant to write the"improvement" for Black is 15...Bxa3.

However, after a deeper look I'm not so sure Black isn't worse after 15...Bxa3.

After 15...Bxa3!?, it appears White can maintain the advantage with 16. Nce4! when play might continue 16...h5 17. gxh5! Nxh5 18. Be2! to .

Dec-13-14  wooden nickel: This game is described in the book "Das moderne Blackmar-Diemer Gambit" by Emil Josef Diemer (page 21 and 183, Ryder Gambit with 7. Qf2 c6).
Diemer himself writes that the following variation leads to a forced win: 17. Qh6+ Kg8 18. Nxf7 Kxf7 19. Ng5+ Ke8 20. Bxg6+ Kd8 21. Nxe6#

click for larger view

Fritz 13 prefers 18.Rhf1!, but I guess he never read the book! This "7. Qf2 c6" variation is not too common, 8.Nf3 seems to be a good response. Diemer's sneaky 10. a3 and 11.Bd3, cutting off escapes for Black's Queen before attacking with the h and g pawns is an interesting plan!

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Dezaxa> <15... Bxa3 may be a little better than Kg7, but I suspect not much...Black must have gone astray much earlier.>

I now agree 15...Bxa3 is refuted by 16. Nce4! to . However, instead of looking much earlier, it appears 15...h5! to = improves.

One possibility is 15...h5 16. gxh5 Nxh5 17. Bd2 Qe5! 18. Rhg1 Qg7! to =.

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White is two pawns down.

Black threatens ... Nd5 followed by ... h6.

The first idea that comes to mind is 17.Qh6+, trying to extract the black king:

A) 17... Kxh6 18.Nxe6+ g5 (18... Qg5 19.Bxg5#) 19.N4xg5 (threatens 20.Nxf7#)

A.1) 19... fxe6 20.Nxe6+ Qg5 21.Bxg5#.

A.2) 19... Nxg4 20.hxg4#.

A.3) 19... Qxg5 20.Bxg5#.

A.4) 19... Ne4 20.Nxf7+ (20.Nxe4+ Kg6 21.Neg5+ f5 looks problematic for White) 20... Kg6 21.Rhf1 (threatens 22.Nxh8# and 22.Bxe4+ Qf5 23.Rxf5 winning)

A.4.a) 21... Rf8 22.Bxe4+ Qf5 23.Nxf8+ Nxf8 24.Bxf5 Bxf5 (24... Kxf7 25.Bxc8+ Ke8 26.Bxb7 + - [R+B+2P vs N]) 25.Rxf5 + - [R+P].

A.4.b) 21... h6 22.Bxe4+ Qf5 23.Rxf5 Rg8 (23... Nc5(f6) 24.Nxh8#) 24.Bxe4 wins.

A.4.c) 21... Bf6 22.Nxh8+ Bxh8 23.Bxe4+ Qf5 24.Rxf5 Nf6 25.Rg5+ Kf7 26.Nd8+ Ke8 (26... Ke7 27.Bc5+ Ke8) 27.Bxh7 Nxh7 28.Rg8+, etc.

A.4.c) 21... Ndf6 22.Nxh8#.

B) 17... Kg8 18.Rhf1 and White seems to have more than enough compensation. For example, 18... Bf8 19.Nxf6+ Nxf6 20.Qh4 Bg7 21.Nxf7 Kxf7 22.Bg5 Qe5 23.Bxf6 Bxf6 24.g5 with a winning attack (24... Qxg5+ 25.Qxg5).

Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Ave the head honcho hot head clean holler f7 again local e6 targets hoopla in level a nice bucket f7 an gives hooded fang g5 horded f7 hammer and sickle horse bah e4 humbug hushed tones in tonnage wheel save around hunker down a give good other e7 i ment back bind in a3 im of the thought an equal sac slight light pull of tapestry back huff good enugh to faff queen h6 around in off ghost and ghoul fog e4 flush an clean queasy hoof oh if ive this right to left h5 a fifth gill why sinker f7 i against 17.Kxh6 an try am backstep i centre g7 pullback hope in couch g8 at enact have tender f7 spot i targets 17...Kg8 18.Rhf1 Qe5 19.Nxf7 Kxf7 wins g5 horse f6 back and majesty g8 exposed to the light f6 and very strong am e6 weak too i elevates 18.Nxe6+ bog big glib gab go back on the mountain bag bong thunder bang bung bug house big gob grubber h8 thin pick fat chance ha do the math calculate light wins back f5 at queen slim a5 jones cant hide forever a green pasture h8 doesn't help i effigy rates e6 slams energy in spades eastly to west a h6 eachway bet essay's e7 the point ecumen at e3 do go d3 both tight stay put stare down have either bind e5 home bare straight element enters the chain epi centre us like a g6 gets exposed to the light bishop scan the horizon h8 out of play in have equate errand knight;

nettle grasp every e6 as nellie shell h6 a majesty elephant off f1 ridge spark inter tap lesson a nebula sweet nectar it ok in ogle negate the path a line crow man seer neckline lane over tickle nice neptunes in sync a nesteggs i netter the newest f7 goal i net a point etcetera bet jet set he goofball majesty;

g8 he fan club gives eg flinch gaff healer all wounds if divide knight bishop into fifths effect it is black in:

save a brave g6 a table e6 see if flow off ie sense at h8 at rubbish h8 if fuss around i geronimo 18...g5 19.N4xg5 Ne4 20.Nxf7+ honour flights hope rave oh indeed hob cook it is black in set back baulks f7 as hock up you swine at have hod bishop carrier hone knight rook erm hoe down match off mister over an follow the bear hog roast in back at a3 for me ho ho ho excuse the hodge podge hold down a local in catch homily honker mitigate ive ever greens f7 hong kong hoopla in lavish hop scotch i score referral off apply establish in a wave centre f7 ground horde host hot tub hover hoot bid boot it decides in debrief knight choo the train flights in fervious an fancies fetters the chain furnace fallacy fagends as fallguy eg in festoon fickles the chap g5 wins at rich;

flipper rook finesse flashed off f1 foghorn flaunts again fog host fang ghoul eg gush f7 engage fleet of foot eg good hoof tres bon take knight down steps g6 and alf rook plum source f7 a key in light victor glided fags in black g6 baulk blank sag affable bags affix a cut i curry favour a vow as clean g6 sang froid inker ala show boat i ley

lines at kabbalah rook and majesty g8 up ply in light a boon 20...Kg6 21.Rhf1 Rf8 22.Bxe4+ he's playing a queen down until this f5 point wins back fetch her a5 majesty off manage f7 an e4 good to win.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Three chrisowen's? Surely one would be enough?
Dec-13-14  chesscheater: A real masterpiece. I saw move 1 but that was a dead end according to my chess challenged mind. Lots of guns pointed at His Majesty.
Dec-13-14  Steve.Patzer: <Once> thanks for the Fritzie line.
Dec-13-14  TheaN: Apparantly I commented on this game in 2008... some older comments surprise me, but this one completely flabbergasted me as I didn't not recognize the position in the slightest.

As for today's puzzle, I actually couldn't make Qh6+ work and would have gone with Rhf1. Best move, not the idea of the puzzle.

Dec-13-14  M.Hassan: "Very Difficult"
White to play 17.?
White is 2 pawns down

I stared for a while at the puzzle and thought that f7 pawn has to be taken not rightaway but after pinning the Knight on f6:

17.Rhf1 h6
18.Nxf7 Kxf7
19.g5 Qe5
20.gxf6 Bxf6
21.Nxf6 Nxf6

<if 21...Qxe3+ 22.Kb1 g5 23.Nxd7+ Ke7 24.Qb4+ Kxd7 25.Rf7+ Ke8 26.Qe7#>

22.Bd4 Qg5
23.Qxg5 hxg5
Now, White becomes ahead by a Knight for a pawn

25.Bxg6 e5
And Black looses heavy material

On move 21..., Black Queen could attack with a check with no advantage for Black:

22.Kb1 g5
23.Nxd7+ Ke7
24.Qb4+ Kxd7
25.Rf7+ Ke8
Time to check
?? 17.Qh6+ never occured to me

Dec-13-14  morfishine: <Once> This puzzle reminded me of a POTD a month or two back where the White Knights "played the same game": A Knight sac on <f7> then the other Knight captures <e6>; in fact, for a minute there, I thought it was the same game.

I agree with your observations, somethings odd here, probably due to the poor miscue by Black


Dec-13-14  TheBish: E J Diemer vs K Locher, 1948

White to play (17.?) "Very Difficult", White is down two pawns.

17. Qh6+!! and now:

(a) 17...Kxh6 18. Nxe6+ g5 19. N4xg5! Ne4

Or 19...Nxg4 20. hxg4#, or 19...fxe6 20. Nxe6+ Qg5 21. Bxg5#.

20. Nxf7+ Kg6 21. Rhf1! and Black can't meet the dual threat of 22. Nxh8# and 22. Bxe4+, either mating or winning the queen and more for starters, e.g. 21...Bf6 22. Nxh8+ Bxh8 23. Bxe4+ Qf5 24. Bxf5+ Kf7 25. Nc7 Rb8 26. Bxd7+ with an overwhelming material advantage for White, or 21...Rg8 22. Bxe4+ Qf5 23. Bxf5+ Kxf7 24. Nc7 Rb8 25. Bxd7+.

(b) 17...Kg8

This is clearly best.

18. Rhf1 Bf8 19. Qh4 and there are numerous options here, but the bottom line is that Black will have a difficult time with his h8 rook hemmed in the corner. Among other things, White is planning Nxf7 followed by g5.

search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
from mofoman's favorite games by mofoman
by shakespeare
Gambit scrapbook
by Zorts
17.? (December 13, 2014)
from Saturday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00) 1-0 Q decoy sac
from 1940s Barious Beauties & Bonehead BBQs by fredthebear
Queen sacrifices- 2
by obrit
19 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VII by wwall
from zz29_Remember 1838 (Ra8+Bc8 untouched) by whiteshark
17.? (Saturday, December 13)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
Hiko Seijuro's favorite games
by Hiko Seijuro
Unpleasant surprise Qh6+!!, uncommon Q sacrifice
from Diemer Dazzlers, Gedult Goners, Fredthebear Fits by fredthebear
17.? (Saturday, December 13)
from POTD Blackmar-Diemler Gambit by takchess

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC