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Jim Loy vs R Erickson
Montana (1989)
English Opening: King's English Variation. Three Knights System General (A27)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-25-11  27xx: The same game:D Andreikin vs Karjakin, 2010
Jul-25-11  sevenseaman: <chesskidnate> You are right. Mate in 3 fails in so many ways. The way its prolonged by 8...0-0 I wouldn't bet on even winning it against a GM.
Jul-25-11  consul: I first considered two replies to Qxd4: Nxd4 and Ng8. Then i saw the analysis of <dzechiel>, and i started thinking...


Isn't this a Monday?
How long have i been sleeping?

Is the ending really that easy?

Premium Chessgames Member
  rhickma4: 8...0-0 does not help.
9.Nf6+ Kh8 10.Ng4+ Nxd4 10.Bf6+ Kg8 11.Nh6#


9.Nf6+ Kg7 10.Nh5+ Kg8 11.Qg7#

Jul-25-11  Uvulu: If 8... 0-0, 9. Nf6+ Kh8 10. Ng4+ and then

A. 10... Kg8 11. Nh6#
B. 10... Nxd4 11. Bf6+ Kg8 12. Nh6#
C. 10... f6 11. Bxf6+
I. 11... Rxf6+ 12. Qxf6+ Kg8 13. Nh6#
II. 11... Kg8 12. Nh6#

Jul-25-11  shajind: 8.Q*B f6 chess genius .what Ribka says.Is it a very dificult problem?
Jul-25-11  abuzic: After 8.Qxd4 black has to choose between fast or slow death:

-8...Ng8 is mate in 10: 9.Qxh8+ d6 10.Qxg8+ Kd7 11.Qxf7+ Ne7 12.Bxe7 Kc6 13.Nb4+ Kb6 14.Bxd8 Bd7 15.Qxd7 a5 16.Qxc7+ Ka7 17.Nc6+ Ka6 18.Qxa5#

-8...0-0 and ...Rg8 is mate in 5: 9.Nf6+....

-8...f5 is mate in 4: 9.Qxh8+...

-8...Nxd4 (he decided to commit suicide) is mate in 2: 9.Nxf6+ Kf8 10.Bh6#

-8...f6 offers the slowest way to lose, a good start would be: 9.Nxf6+.

Jul-25-11  morfishine: <8.Qxd4> wins. If 8...Nxd4 9.Nf6+ Kf8 10.Bh6#

I think we've seen this theme before and solvers have shown declining the Queen only prolongs black's defeat, no matter how much he wiggles and squirms

Jul-25-11  cocker: Thanks <27xx>. I knew I had seen this before somewhere. The 2010 game Andreikin v Karjakin was in the press earlier this year.
Jul-25-11  rogl: <dzechiel: 8 Qxd4 f6

Not 8...Nxd4 9 Nf6+ Kf8 10 Bh6#.

9 Nxf6+ Kf7

Even better than 9.♘xf6+ is 9.♕xf6 and white will win at least an exchange.

Jul-25-11  target4Q2011: very easy to spot that 8.Qxd4, eliminating the defender of dark squares around Black King ...
Jul-25-11  marwanredman123: Weak color complex
Jul-25-11  YetAnotherAmateur: The best defense for black I could come up with here:

8. Qxd4 Ng8
9. Qxh8 Ne7 (otherwise, Qxg8#)
10. Bxe7 d6
11. Qxg8+ Kd7
12. Qxd8+ Kc6 (Ke6 leads to mate)

Jul-25-11  Patriot: 8.Qxd4 is obviously the best move since 8...Nxd4 9.Nf6+ Kf8 10.Bh6#. That's the Monday problem and that's all I can take credit for. I didn't even take time to count the material but's the best move.

Looking a bit further, 8...f6 is "a move" and so is 8...O-O as some of you point out. 8...O-O is an option that leaves white's queen hanging but isn't otherwise strong. This move almost seems a waste of time to calculate because white could simply move the queen to safety if need be. 8...f6--now that's a move worth considering because it attempts to fight back.

I went ahead and looked at 8...O-O and thought 9.Qh4 h5 might be best. Houdini points out 9.Nf6+ Kh8 10.Ng4 (the move I missed) 10...Nxd4 11.Bf6+ Kg8 12.Nh6#. Another possibility is 10...f6 11.Bxf6+ Rxf6 (11...Kg8 12.Nh6#) 12.Qxf6+ Kg8 13.Nh6#.

<YetAnotherAmateur> If that's the best defense black really is in trouble! I would prefer 8...O-O and leave it to white to find the knock-out.

8.Qxd4 Ng8 9.Qxh8 (taking a rook for nothing!). Houdini says that after 9...Ne7 10.Nf6+ Kf8 11.Bh6# (same theme as the game).

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Even my dog would solve this one:if I had one...

White takes bishop,sacrificing the queen. If black takes the lady,the knight check and the bishop mates.

The queen sac removed the bishop from the long diagonal to let the knight in...

Jul-25-11  Oliveira: <27xx: The same game:D Andreikin vs Karjakin, 2010>

A somewhat recurrent trap:

B Blumenfeld vs NN, 1903

Jul-25-11  gofer: Okay after <8 Qxd4 f6> we have equality, but a simple win? No that really isn't available. Have a try for yourself against Crafty EGT. But beware you can't castle... :-)

Jul-25-11  DarthStapler: Got it easily
Jul-25-11  hedgeh0g: The exact same position occurred in Andreikin - Karjakin at the World Blitz Championships this year and that position was also used as a puzzle on cg fairly recently.

Qxd4 wins immediately.

Jul-25-11  SleepyEye: Montana?? This has to be a first!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: "I am the Loy".
Jul-25-11  sevenseaman: I have not been able to work out a win against the 8...f6 defense. I'd like to see a line that overcomes this.
Jul-25-11  PinnedPiece: Monday time goal: 30 sec

At 10 sec it was obvious that the knight bishop combination produced mate. One thing stood in the way---Lord Bishop of the Dark Side.

With a White Queen 15 sec elapsed time the way forward was clear.

Result: Success


Jul-25-11  bumpmobile: <SleepyEye: Montana?? This has to be a first!> Hey! Don't knock the Montana players. We may not be the chess capital of the world, but I do happen to live in the Sheep Drive capital.
Jul-25-11  stst: the Bk K is virtually smothered, but first got to get rid of the B guarding f6: 8.QxB NxQ
9.Nf6+ Kf8 (only flee square)
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