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Charles Ambrose Scott Damant vs NN
London (1932), London ENG
Caro-Kann Defense: Mieses Attack. Landau Gambit (B12)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-27-06  TTLump: Notice where this game was played ... (Londen?). Never heard of it. And I think NN stands for Nevabotny Nobodovich and I am doubt very much he has been playing chess since 1590! This puzzle is a SCAM! I want a refund!
Nov-27-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Londen is the Dutch spelling of London.
Nov-27-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: Well, if NN payed $$$ to play in the simul, he didn't even get his money's worth! Eight moves? I lasted 23 moves against Mednis.
Nov-27-06  Stonewaller2: I solved this one in 1931, a year before the game was played and over two decades before I was even born. ;)
Nov-27-06  CoryLetain: kewl I actually get every move.
Nov-27-06  greensfield: Hey <dzechiel> In your game, I see you had the Black Knight hopping about. 5 times in 7 moves, in a game lasting barely 11 moves. I bet it was great fun!
Nov-27-06  Minty: These make me laugh. In these positions with the mate after a capture on g3/g6, it's always the queen that gets sac'ed instead of the bishop, as if it somehow makes the mate more sophisticated or attractive. But it doesn't. A queen sacrifice is only attractive when it's the only way. Otherwise, it's just pretentious.
Nov-27-06  Tenderfoot: Taking with the Q first is way sassier. It's like he's saying, "I don't even need this to mate you."
Nov-27-06  TTLump: there is a classic fools mate on this theme with the colors reversed that does not involve any sacs and only lasts 2 moves ...

1. f3 e5
2. g4 Qh4#

Nov-27-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: I didn't get where I am today without knowing a fool's mate when I see it. Then again, where am I today?
Nov-27-06  Stellar King: I agree ...too easy for a Monday ...then again everyone can use some morality!!
Nov-27-06  adantra: Who was playing black? Kramnik?
Nov-27-06  Stellar King: haha ...GOOD ONE!!

(for those who don't know check this game of so called a "world champion":Deep Fritz vs Kramnik, 2006)

Nov-27-06  Lifelong Patzer: Got it. It seems that Black erred on move 3...Nf6, inviting the pawn push and opening the f7 square. The Knight retreat to d7 was unfortunate. I think that 3...d5 x e4 or 3...e6 would have been better. I don't know the Caro-Kann at all but it seems like it would invite sharp attacks. I'm sure there are ways for Black to refute the attacks and start action on the Queenside, but you have to know the opening well. I like to answer e4 with e5 and take my chances from there.
Nov-27-06  rover: Anyone who played Bxg6+ should get only half credit :)
Nov-27-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: Of course on the "dangerous diagonal" theme there is also the famous (contrived?) game A Gibaud vs F Lazard, 1924.
Nov-27-06  Slink: Hey DeepBlade!

The difference being that in Greco vs NN, 1619, Black had a chance to bail after 5. Qh5+:

...g6
6. fxg6 Bg7

and I don't know who's in trouble.

Nov-27-06  Bob726: I think that 3. Bd3 is a bad move, because white can counter with dxe4 and Nf6, and black can probaly gain the advangtage. However, Nf6 is a terrible move that allows black to play e5 and e6. Also, black could have saved himself on move 5. by playing Nf6, and although he loses the right to castle, its much better than to be mated.
Nov-27-06  Amarande: Black's only really fatal error is 5 ... fxe6??; he would still have been in the game after 5 ... Nf6, though after the trade on f7 White still has a vastly superior game. While Black should get his King into safety soon (White does not have the immediate force to mate in this case), e5 and e6 remain permanently weak and the Black e-pawn is a weakness which can be firmly fixed at any time by f4 (after which ... e5 can never be forced). It is not clear if this is sufficient advantage to win, but as Black would then have no real chances himself it clearly shows the inferiority of this variation.

3 ... Nf6 is bad after 3 Nc3 for the same reason; while here there is no mate and Black can safely capture the pawn, he still gets the same organic e-file weaknesses and the "extra" pawn really does nothing more than provide a significant obstruction for his Bishops with the vastly better game for White here too.

3 ... e6 avoids any disastrous weakening, but here too the advantage is clearly White's after 4 e5, which basically makes the game a French Defense where Black is at a disadvantage - he will have to play ... c5 to contest the center, with the result that 1 ... c6 was a lost move; therefore, 3 ... e6 is playable but definitely inferior.

Lifelong Patzer is correct about 3 ... dxe4! though. In fact, it virtually refutes White's play, as after 4 Bxe4 Nf6! Black actually gets the better game despite surrendering the center due to the awkward situation of the White Bishop, which cannot retreat to d3 due to Qxd4 (the c6 pawn has a purpose after all! It prevents the indirect defense of the d4 pawn via Bb5+ as would have happened in the French) and therefore must retreat to the inferior, blocking square f3, or be exchanged for the Knight after 5 Nc3.

Even after the better 3 Nc3, Black gets a comfortable game after dxe4 4 Nxe4 Bf5 or 4 ... Nf6; neither move normally leads to significant advantage for either side, with the result that the Caro-Kann actually tends to have a reputation for being fairly dull and boring.

Admittedly however dxe4 can be somewhat hard to find for a beginner, as it goes completely counter to the ostensible purpose of 1 ... c6 which was to maintain the strong point at d5, but it is necessary for Black in many cases.

Nov-27-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Obviously, Black was a Damant in the rough.
Nov-21-08  YoungEd: An entry in Edward Winter's Chess Notes today says that a Damant was the first to issue a challenge to Alekhine after he had defeated Capablanca for the world title. I wonder if this is the same Damant; I never heard of any Damant before!
Dec-01-08  WhiteRook48: ...fxe6?? Maybe NN has a voracious appetite for e-pawns. NN: Hey Damant, why don't you exploit my open e8-h5 diagonal? Checkmate me!! Damant: Sure
Nov-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: Obviously, White was a-Damant that he wouldn't lose.
Apr-28-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  sea7kenp: How *not* to play the Caro-Kann as Black!
Oct-20-21  chavezo: Znosko-Borovsky (Traps on the chessboard, p. 1) has 2. d4 Nf6 3. Bd3 d5. Not that it matters, but there it is.
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