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| Oct-21-02 | | drukenknight: This is my favorite French defense of all time. Euwe almost pulls this off. You should read ALek.'s note to this. How this variation is inferior, how Euwe is doomed after move 3 or whatever; how this refutes Euwes move, blah blah blah |
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Aug-06-04
 | | marcusantoinerome: Alekhine does like White's position better in the opening, especially after 10...Rg6. My question is, what is the current assessment of this line? I don't see many top players playing it, but is that just because of fashion, or is it not as good as Alekhine says in "My Best Games"? |
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| Aug-06-04 | | Zenchess: Chess Tiger likes White all the way after ...Rg6. Maybe this line is underrated for White. His King is much safer than in the main lines of the Winawer because he can castle short. |
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Mar-22-05
| | marcusantoinerome: Zenchess and drunkenknight: I've looked at several games that continue 8...Rg6, and I found that the plan for White is usually Qd2, Bb2, 0-0-0, and Ne2-f4. So this suggests to me that castling short is not such a good idea because White's queenside pawns are so weak. When I play this line, that's where I usually have problems. Any ideas on the current grandmaster viewpoint? |
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| Jun-05-08 | | Magorian: Some sources give 28.a6 a !
After 28... Qxb7 (28... Nb6? is just bad) 29.axb7 Rb8 30.Rfb1 Nb6 31.Bb4 Rc4 32.Rxa7 (Alekhine) white is indeed winning.
However 30... Rc6! with the idea of Rb6 seems a lot stronger. White is still better but not so much. 28.a6! should be 28.a6?! or even 28.a6?
28.Rfb1 is probably better i.e. 28... Qxb7 29.Rxb7 Bc6 30.Re7 Re8 31.Nxf5  |
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| Jul-17-12 | | Calli: A nice photo of the game: http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/... AA is thinking about his 22nd move, I believe. |
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| Dec-31-12 | | Conrad93: This is not the Winckelmann-Riemer Gambit.
It's followed by 6.f3.
Source: The Wonderful Winawer. |
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Aug-24-13
 | | offramp: What would happen after 16...Nc5?
Alekhine must have been relieved that the adjournment turned up, he seemed to have lost control during the previous dozen moves. |
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| Aug-24-13 | | thomastonk: <offramp: What would happen after 16...Nc5?> I don't see the idea of this move. White could give a check with 17.♕b5+ or he could play 17.♕c4. Even 17.♕c2 seems to be possible, which supports a future ♗b2 (17.. ♕xd4? 18.♗b2! ). |
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| Aug-24-13 | | KlingonBorgTatar: What impresses me with this game is AAA's repeated movements of his white squared bishop while still in the opening , with the rooks and black sqd bishop still undeveloped, and king uncastled. After the bishop settles on f3, the apparently weak pawn at a3 makes a seemingly innocuous but turned out to be a profound stab at the queen side , still with the rooks and the other bishop undeveloped and king uncastled. These at the very least gave white a dynamic game. This style of dynamic opening strategy is not unique to this game. Check out his win over Rubinstein at the Hague 1921 where there is also the repetitive movements of pieces in the opening coupled with a rook pawn (this time the h pawn) stab. Also his win over Wolf at Bad Pistyan where the central e pawn is given up,followed by multiple and alternating gyrations of queen and knight, to preserve an apparently weak and far advanced isolated pawn at d5,while still in the opening phase with other pieces still unmoved. This was chess lightyears ahead of its time. Alekhine is Alekhine is Alekhine. |
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| Aug-24-13 | | Calli: Actually Alekhine's bishop's maneuver 18.Bf3? is a mistake. AA could have essentially ended the game with 18.Ne4 Qe7 19.Bh6 Rg8 20.Qf3 and the threat of Bxf7 followed by Nd6 can't be met. 
click for larger view |
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Aug-24-13
| | offramp: <Calli: Actually Alekhine's bishop's maneuver 18.Bf3? is a mistake. AA could have essentially ended the game with 18.Ne4 ....> That's a great line. If Alekhine had have played that, and won within 20 moves - well, would it have shattered Euwe's confidence even more than this standard loss? |
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| Nov-04-13 | | Conrad93: 10...Rg6?! immediately is bad. Black has to worry about a potential Nf5 somewhere down the road. 10...Nbd7! is more solid. |
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| Nov-04-13 | | Shams: <Conrad> <10...Nbd7! is more solid.> Black played your suggested move on move 9. Are you suggesting he lift the piece a half-inch off the board, then put it down on the same square, calling it his tenth move as well? |
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| Nov-04-13 | | Conrad93: Oh, i meant to say that 10...Rg6 is an empty threat. The rook eventually has to move again. |
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| Nov-04-13 | | Shams: <Conrad> I've played some forty or more games in this line as White and I can tell you that ...Rg6 is quite commonly played. Granted, that doesn't make it good, but it's the most common move here on move 8:
Opening Explorer ...and the second-most common on move 9:
Opening Explorer By move 10 here we only have six games in the database. There are two games with 10...Qc7 and one each with 10...b6, 10...cd, 10...Qa5 and 10...Rg6. Conclusion: masters disagree with your assessment of ...Rg6. The point of the move of course is to free up the Nf6 to move without also offering Black's h-pawn. Losing both the g- and h-pawns would be quite a commitment from Black, notwithstanding that he does precisely this in the main line Winawer poisoned pawn variation. |
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| Nov-04-13 | | Shams: Also, in the five other games after <10...Ng3>, Black plays ...Rg8-g6 soon enough in three of them. |
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| Nov-05-13 | | Conrad93: It may be common, but no opening book on the Winawer is ecstatic about moving the rook to g6. It forced the queen to move, but after Nf5 black is losing tempo. |
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| Nov-05-13 | | Conrad93: It may be common, but no opening book on the Winawer supports an early Rg6. It forces the queen to move, but after Nf5 black is losing tempo. You are better off waiting a few turns before playing it, because there are better options. |
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| Nov-05-13 | | Shams: <Conrad> I doubt there's much literature on the Winckelmann-Riemer Gambit. Can you show me a single book on it that gives ...Rg6 as a mistake? I've already demonstrated that it's played by nearly all the masters who take up the Black pieces. Yes, Rg6 gains a tempo and may eventually lose a tempo. It happens in chess. White can play Nf5 hitting the rook; then the rook moves and it remains to be seen if White's knight is any good on f5. in the meanwhile Black has enjoyed greater freedom on the kingside by kicking White's queen away. Have you mastered the en passant rule yet? Learning how to learn can be difficult. |
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| Nov-05-13 | | whiteshark: As a French Defence purist [I have to say that] the <Winckelmann-Reimer Gambit> starts only after <6.f3 <!>>. <Shams> fyg Thomas Winckelmann has published two books about his gambit line. (e.g. his 2nd book alone contains 500 annotated (corr) games) |
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| Nov-05-13 | | Shams: <whiteshark> Thanks. I should not have trusted chessgames on opening nomenclature. |
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| Nov-06-13 | | Wyatt Gwyon: <Conrad> Do you have extensive literature on the Winawer? |
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| Nov-07-13 | | Conrad93: This line is given good analysis in the popular book The Wonderful Winawer. In that book, plus John Watson's Play The French, Rg6 is not recommended because of Ne2-Nf5. Uhlmann also does not recommend it. |
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| Nov-07-13 | | Conrad93: <Do you have extensive literature on the Winawer?> I have a lot of books on the French, but not too many on one specific opening. Like I said, it's mentioned somewhat in almost every book on the French. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 37.Qxf4