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Alexander Alekhine vs Frank Marshall
Baden-Baden (1925), Baden-Baden GER, rd 17, May-08
Queen's Gambit Declined: Marshall Defense (D06)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Pawn and Two>
LOL! Thanks, that's very interesting counterplay.

Seems like we need to look earlier for an improvement for White. Perhaps 18. Qd2, now Black's knight is pushed back to 18...Nd7 (not ...Nd5? because White has Bxh7+ discovering attack on the knight). And then 19. Qc2 further pushing the knight back to 19...Nf8.

After that, it's hard to imagine any serious Black counterplay, while White still has all the advantages. For example, he can then slowly prepare to launch the pawn phalanx with 20. Rde1, with the eventual f5 further pushing back the Black pieces.

Jan-13-09  Ulhumbrus: <Pawn and Two> How about 21 Re3 Nd5 22 Nxd5 Rxd5 23 Rd1-e1
Jan-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <beatgiant: Seems like we need to look earlier for an improvement for white. perhaps 18.Qd2...> 18.Qd2 is an interesting suggestion. Fritz indicates: 18.Qd2 Nd7, 19.Qc2? is incorrect: (-.33) (24 ply) 19....Qh6! 20.Qd2 Rad8.

However, after 18.Qd2 Nd7, White can improve: (.39) (23 ply) 19.Qf2 b6 20.Kb1 Nc5 21.Kb1 Nc5 21.Bc2 a5 22.Rhe1, (.56) (25 ply) 22...Qh6 23.Ne2 Rad8 24.Nd4 Bd5 25.Nf5 Qe6, with some advantage for White that is slowly increasing.

Considering that Fritz finds 19.Qf2 best for White, it would seem logical that saving a tempo by 18.Qf2, would be even better for White.

After 18.Qf2, Fritz indicates a definite advantage for White: (.74) (21 ply) 18...Nd7 19.Rhe1 Qh6 20.Kb1 Rad8 21.Ne4.

I think we now have good evidence that 18.Qf2 would have been advantageous for White.

Additional analysis will be needed on 20...Qf8, before a final determination can be made regarding that move.

Jan-14-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <Ulhumbrus: How about 21.Re3 Nd5 22.Nxd5 Rxd5 23.Rde1>

After 20...Qf8 21.Re3 Nd5 22.Nxd5 Rxd5, Fritz indicates the game is equal: (.00) (22 ply) 23.Rde1 Rc5+ 24.Kb1 Rexe5 25.Rxe5 Rxe5 26.Rxe5 f6, or (.00) (22 ply) 23.f6 g6 24.Rde1 Red8 25.Bc4 Qc5 26.Qh6 Qxc4+ 27.Rc3 Rd1+ 28.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 29.Kxd1 Qf1+.

Also equal is 20...Qf8 21.Re3 h6 22.Qg3 Qc5 23.e6 fxe6 24.Rxe6, (.00) (21 ply) 24...Rxe6 25.fxe6 Rd6, or (.00) (21 ply) 24...Rd6 25.Rxe8 Bxe8.

Jul-20-09  Ulhumbrus: <Pawn and Two> After 20...Qf8 how about 21 e6 eg 21...fxe6 22 fxe6, or more interestingly, 21 e6 fxe6 22 Bc4
Oct-24-09  jmboutiere: 3. ... Qd5 +0.29; 3. ...Nd5 +0.45
Rybka 3
8.0-0 + 0.43; 8.Ng5 +0.02
20....Qf8 +0.27; 20....Nd5 +2.28 first big mistake
Oct-10-10  mafia1: hey what happens if i play 3...Qxd5 instead of 3...Nxd5 ?
Oct-10-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sastre: If 3...Qxd5, a likely continuation would be <4.Nc3 Qd8 5.Nf3 e6 6.e4 Be7>.
Oct-20-10  SharpAttack: Alekhine is the GOD of tactics! Accurate and tactical - truly rare!
Oct-20-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Indeed, <20...Qf8!> would have been a great move to keep the position well balanced.
Oct-21-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <Ulhumbrus: After 20...Qf8 how about 21.e6 fxe6>

After 20...Qf8 21.e6, Fritz prefers 21...Qc5, instead of 21...fxe6: (.32) (22 ply) 21...Qc5 22.Qf4, (.30) (23 ply) 22...Kh8 23.g4 Nd5 24.Qc4 Qf8 25.Bc2 fxe6 26.fxe6 Qf4+ 27.Qxf4 Nxf4 28.Rxd8 Rxd8 29.e7 Re8 30.Re5, (.28) (25 ply) 30...g6 31.Nb5 Bxb5 32.Rxb5 Rxe7 33.Rxb7 a5 34.Ra7 Re1+ 35.Kd2 Re5 36.Rxc7 Nxh3, with a near equal evaluation.

After 20...Qf8 21.e6 Qc5 22.Qf4, Black could also play, (.52) (23 ply) 22...Rd6 23.g4 b5 24.Kb1 fxe6 25.Re5 Nd5 Rxd5 27.Rxe6 Bd7 28.Rxe8+ Bxe8 29.Qe4 Re5, (.15) (23 ply) 30.Qa8 c6 31.Qd8 Qe7 32.Qxe7 Rxe7 33.Kc2 Bf7 34.b3, (.00) (21 ply) 34...Re3, with an equal evaluation.

Feb-03-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: <SharpAttack: Alekhine is the GOD of tactics! Accurate and tactical - truly rare! > What about Mikhail Tal ? He's the best tactician who even lived!
Aug-01-12  chesssalamander: It's funny: this opening is named after Marshall, but he lost the game. And, the Marshall Attack in the Ruy Lopez is also named after him, and he also lost the famous game against Capablanca when he "unveiled" it!
Feb-06-13  Cemoblanca: 13.Qd2! 14.Qe3! What a plan! Soon after the position plays almost by itself: 0-0, f4, e5, Rhe1, etc.

24...Nxa2+ tried to set up some (third-class) traps (followed by 25...Qe8, 26...Be4+ and if 27.Kxa2?? then 27...Qa4#), but the situation was already beyond remedy. Great game! :)

Oct-06-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: 2..Nf6 is rarely played nowadays. I have a decent opening library and it is not mentioned in any of my books. 8 Bf4..Nb4 would have been very awkward for White. Alekhine thought that 11..Nxe5 would have been an improvement. 13 Qd2! may have been the move that Marshall overlooked; instead 13 0-0..g5! would have been very promising for Black. After Alekhine's move 13..g5 would not have been as effective as after 14 h4..g4 15 Qg5..Qxg5 16 hxg..Nd7 17 Be2..Ne5 18 Nd5 White would have had a large edge. Alekhine suggested 14..Qa5 as an improvement when after 15 0-0-0 Black is still OK.
Oct-07-13  RookFile: It does appear that black's game isn't bad after 11...... Nxe5 12. Be2 0-0. Black is better off than in the game because white's bishop is not as aggressively posted. Marshall probably wanted to make some threats of his own, but reality suggests that Alekhine with the white pieces is the one who is going to be doing the attacking.
Nov-05-13  Mudphudder: Pretty finish.
Sep-15-14  Bronder: Alekhine's superb Queen placement allows for the bulldozing to begin.

The Marshall Defense is looked down upon now, with reason, but white can make a lot of mistakes. Pushing the e pawn on the 5th move is one of them.

Sep-15-14  Bronder: One problem with the Marshall Attack is that it can end up looking like this for black:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d5 3. cd5 Qd5 4. Nc3 Qd8 5. e4 e5 6. Be3 Ng4 7. Nf3 Ne3 8. fe3 ed4 9. ed4

Sep-15-14  Bronder: One problem with the Marshall Defense is that it can end up looking like this for black:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d5 3. cd5 Qd5 4. Nc3 Qd8 5. e4 e5 6. Be3 Ng4 7. Nf3 Ne3 8. fe3 ed4 9. ed4

Sep-26-14  Bronder: Look at white's position after its 10th move. If it looks like a spearhead pointed at the black king, and it moves like a spearhead, and feels like one, then it is.
Sep-27-14  morfishine: I would've played <29.Rxe4> (29...fxe4 30.Bxd5+ Qf7 31.e8=Q#) but thats me
Oct-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jonathan Sarfati: <chesssalamander:>

This opening was played *against* Marshall with success by Gunsberg, who also played 5... e5, albeit against 5. Bd3:

Marshall vs Gunsberg, 1902

Dec-03-20  jerseybob: <Jonathan Sarfati: Marshall's mistake was 11...Qxe5, but that was only shown to be wrong by Alekhine's very subtle creeping moves with his Q. 11... Nxe5 would be OK because White must lose time with his B or allow its exchange, and both sides will castle short.> Agreed, though I don't think "Marshall's Defense" is totally sound when black plays 3..Nxd5. The match game Euwe-Bogoljubov 1928 featured 3..Qxd5, which to me looks more promising(if I were forced to play Marshall's Defense!).
Mar-02-21  Gaito: The position after 20.Qg5 was a critical moment of the game (see diagram):


click for larger view

BLACK TO MOVE
White has already a distinct positional advantage, but by no means a "winning advantage". Marshall should have played 20...Qf8!, for example: A) 21.exf6 Rxe1 22.Rxe1 Rxd3 23.Re7 h6 24.Qg4 Rd6 25.Rxc7 Rxf6, and Black can put up a sturdy defence; he could even achieve a draw with correct play (see diagram below):


click for larger view

B) 21.Qh4 Nd5 22.Nxd5 (Now 22.f6?! doesn't work, on account of 22...g6 or even better 22...h6!) 22...Rxd5 23.e6 Qc5+ 24.Kb1 Rxd3! (a typical Petrosian-like defensive move that snuffes out all of Black's problems) 25.Rxd3 Qxf5 26.exf7+ Kxf7 27.Qc4+ Bd5 28.Qxc7+ Kf8 29.Qd6+ Kf7 30.Qxd5+ Qxd5 31.Rf1+ Ke6 32.Rxd5 Kxd5 33.Rf7 Re1+ 34.Kc2 Re2+, and the ending should be a draw with correct play (see diagram):


click for larger view

Curiously enough, Alekhine mentioned nothing about the move 20...Qf8! in his book "My Best Games of Chess 1924-1937". To be sure, Alekhine's annotations are very good, but the only critic about Alekhine's superb comments is that he was very fond of stressing his own good moves, but he was often reluctant to even mentioning his opponent's possible good moves.

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