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Jun-30-07
 | | keypusher: <rodrigo> good point re 45...Rd1. But can't White just play 46. Ra2 and Rb2 then, keeping Black's rook from getting behind the pawn? |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: <square dance: <keypusher> nope. 47.Rd5+ wins right away. nice find.> Yes, that is a =beautiful= winning line, starting with 47 ♖b5-d5+!!. Position after 47 ♖b5-d5+!!
click for larger viewAt first I thought Black could draw using the <STING IN THE TAIL> 47 ... ♖d2x♖d5 48 b6-b7 ♖d5-c5+ 49 ♔c4-b4 ♖c5-c1, 
click for larger viewintending to pick up the new White b8-queen with the <SKEWER> 50 b7-b8=♕ ♖c1-b1+. But then I realized that White also has a <STING IN THE TAIL>: the Black d6-king is =also= lined up with the b8-promotion square so it's 50 b7-b8=♕+ <CHECK(!)> and there is no <SKEWER> from the Black rook. Here I am using the term <STING IN THE TAIL> to denote the tactical possiblities that arise from <PAWN PROMOTION> because a king is lined up with either his own promotion square (White b4-king, b8-promotion square, <SKEWER>) or his opponent's promotion square (Black d6-king, b8-promotion square, <CHECK/TEMPO>). |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: So in that last winning line that I just posted (47 ♖b5-d5+!!), not only is the White king on b4 lined up with the b8-promotion square but so is the Black king on d6! Not often have I seen this happen in an endgame, where both kings are lined up with the same promotion square. And like I also said above, these <ALIGNMENTS> with the <PROMOTION SQUARE> create two types of tactical blows: <SKEWERS> because your own king is lined up with your soon-to-be new queen and <PROMOTION WITH TEMPO/CHECK> because the enemy king is lined up with your promotion square. This variation features =both= of these tactical themes. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: <keypusher: Terrific game!
Fine defense by Naiditch, bringing his rooks to the center. I feel bad for him that he missed 37...Bd8, which would have gotten him a well-deserved draw (I would have played 37...Bc5? without a seond thought.).
>
Yes, a very instructive blunder by Naiditsch, 37 ... ♗e7-c5? losing when 37 ... ♗e7-d8! would have drawn. Problem: <YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR DEFENDERS TO BE SUBJECT TO ATTACK!> |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: 37 ... ♗e7-d8! is similar to <DEFENDING> the h7-square with a Black f8-knight instead of a Black f6-knight. The difference? <YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR DEFENDERS TO BE EXPOSED TO ATTACK!>. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: What is the drawing line after the superior 37 ... ♗e7-d8! as opposed to Naiditsch's 37 ... ♗e7-c5? ?. Thanks. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | Bridgeburner: Basic drawing line would have been 37...Bd8 38.Ra6 Kf8 39.b6 Bxb6 40.Rxb6 Rxa7 =
click for larger view |
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| Jun-30-07 | | Kangaroo: <<Regarding Kramnik vs Naiditsch game>. <Here is an attempt to show what would have happened had Naiditsch played [after <37. b5>] the strongest way, that is <37 ... Bd8> My poor brains have discovered one possible [perhaps, imperfect] continuation: <38. Rd1 Bb6 39. Rd6 Bc7 40. Ra6 Kf8 41. Ke2 Ke7 42. Kd3 Kd7 43. Kc4 Kc8 44. Kc5 Kb7 45. b6 Bxb6+ 46. Rxb6+ Kxa7 47. Rb2 Rc8+ 48. Kd6> and <White wins>. > |
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| Jun-30-07 | | Ulhumbrus: 5…Nc6 obstructs the c7 pawn. This is not enough by itself to make the move bad. One example where Black does well after obstructing his c7 pawn by the move ..Nc6 is the game Browne vs Smyslov, 1982
With 11 Qd1 White has lost no less than five tempi with his. Q. To quote Lasker, a lot can happen in five moves in chess, five moves in chess is a long time. With 13…Nxd4 White has lost six tempi expended on his Q against the one tempo expended on Black's. However Black's QN has lost two tempi in going to d4, and his KN has consumed two tempi going from f6 to b6. 15 Bxb6 devalues Black's Q side pawn majority but also concedes the bishop pair. It gains a tempo as the QB spends a second tempo to exchange itself for a Black KN moves three times. Two alternatives to 16..Bc5 are 16…Nd6 and 16…Bb4. 16…Nd6 frees the QB to come out by defending b7 while 16…Bb4 prepares to return the B pair by …Bxc3 breaking White's Q side. However on 16…Bb4 17 Rc1 defends the Nc3 with a piece. 20…Be6 loses a tempo, for the B will soon come back to d7. 23 Rc7 wins a pawn if we assume that a R on the seventh rank is worth a pawn. In other words Rc1 threatens to win a pawn by threatening Rc7. For a few moves from move 23 to move 30 Naiditsch tries to employ tactical trickery to avoid losing a pawn. In fact he may succeed with best play, as White's K is exposed to attack. However he may have made a mistake at move 29 by taking the d pawn too soon. On 29…Rxd4? Kramnik offers a piece by 30 axb5!! in return for two connected passed pawns, one being an a pawn on the seventh rank which is supported by Kramnik's Rooks and which will be joined soon by its neighbour on the b file . Instead of 29…Rxd4, 29…b4! closes the a file and maintains the attack on the d4 pawn. Now Black may have equality at least. After 32 Ke1 Black would like to start his own attack by ..Bc5 , and instead of 32…Re8+ 32…g6 frees Black's KB to move. However Kramnik is threatening to crown his a pawn in just two moves by a7 and a8. Moreover Black has to lose more time to avoid mate on the back rank. The pair of moves 32…Re8 and 33…Rd8 suggests that Black lacks time to make his extra bishop count, and that a single vital tempo gives White the advantage instead of Black. On 37…Bd8 38 Ra6 keeps the B out of b6 and supports b6. It is possible that with best play, with 29…b4! instead of 29…Rxd4? Naiditsch would have gained the upper hand. One lesson which this suggests is that it is worthwhile to delay carrying your attacking threats out, if by doing so you can delay the opponent's play even more. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: <Ulhumbrus: ... It is possible that with best play, with 29…b4! instead of 29…Rxd4? Naiditsch would have gained the upper hand. One lesson which this suggests is that it is worthwhile to delay carrying your attacking threats out, if by doing so you can delay the opponent's play even more.> Wow, that is a =great= example of <PROPHYLACTIC PLAY>, 29 ... b5-b4!. Does anyone have a <RYBKA EVAL> for the position after the prophylactic move 29 ... b5-b4! given above? |
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Jun-30-07
| | keypusher: < notyetagm: <square dance: <keypusher> nope. 47.Rd5+ wins right away. nice find.>> acirce also found it, and probably a half-dozen other people who didn't post. |
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Jun-30-07
| | keypusher: <Does anyone have a <RYBKA EVAL> for the position after the prophylactic move 29 ... b5-b4! given above?> I don't. But what if 30. Nxb4 Rxd4+ 31. Kc3?
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| Jun-30-07 | | Marmot PFL: I don't think b4 improves either. Black's mistake came later. One line pointed out by Christiansen and somebody here was 32...Rd4 33.a7 Rb4 34.Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35.Ke2 Ra8 and Bc5 with a draw. Very hard to find that in a game.
Later 37...Bd8 instead of Bc5. But maybe Kramnik could avoid this line by 34.b4 instaed of a7 right away. Sometimes pushing the pawn to the 7th right away isn't the best. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | notyetagm: <Marmot PFL: I don't think b4 improves either. Black's mistake came later. One line pointed out by Christiansen and somebody here was 32...Rd4 33.a7 Rb4 34.Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35.Ke2 Ra8 and Bc5 with a draw. Very hard to find that in a game. Later 37...Bd8 instead of Bc5. > I am =always= amazed at how hard the endgame is. Here we have a super-strong GM in Naiditsch who misses several opportunities to draw the game. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | square dance: <acirce also found it, and probably a half-dozen other people who didn't post.> i saw that later. scrolling down has been a big issue for me today. |
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| Jun-30-07 | | Atking: <Kangaroo: <<Regarding Kramnik vs Naiditsch game>. <Here is an attempt to show what would have happened had Naiditsch played [after <37. b5>] the strongest way, that is <37 ... Bd8> My poor brains have discovered one possible [perhaps, imperfect] continuation: <38. Rd1 Bb6 39. Rd6 Bc7 40. Ra6 Kf8 41. Ke2 Ke7 42. Kd3 Kd7 43. Kc4 Kc8 44. Kc5 Kb7 45. b6 Bxb6+ 46. Rxb6+ Kxa7 47. Rb2 Rc8+ 48. Kd6> and <White wins>. > > Did you read my post yesterday? <percy> answered us that on 38.Rd1 Bc7 39.Rc1 there is 39...Bd8 still draw. Else in your line 44...Kb7 45...KxRa6. I was hoping too for a beautifull win but it's looks draw. |
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Jun-30-07
| | keypusher: Chessbase says <Fritz 10 suggests that [Naiditsch] could have drawn with the remarkable defensive idea 32...R3d4 33.a7 Rb4, although further analysis is required to prove or disprove this.> Chess is a hard game, isn't it? :-)
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| Jul-01-07 | | Kangaroo: <<Atking>: Did you read my post yesterday? <percy> answered us that on 38.Rd1 Bc7 39.Rc1 there is 39...Bd8 still draw. Else in your line 44...Kb7 45...KxRa6. I was hoping too for a beautiful win but it's looks draw.> Yes, my line was incorrect. Here is the amendment.
<37. b5 Bd8 38. Rd1 Bb6 39. Rd6 Bc7 40. Rc6 Bd8 41. b6> - and apparently the situation becomes as close as possible to the original game. Black cannot sacrifice the bishop for <two pawns> by playing <41 ... Bxb6 42. Rxb6> and the 8-th rank is too weak. Speaking of the other missed opportunities, I am now more intrigued by the possibility indicated by <<Marmot PFL> and others> : ... <One line pointed out by Christiansen and somebody here was 32...Rd4 33.a7 Rb4 34.Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35.Ke2 Ra8 and Bc5 with a draw. Very hard to find that in a game. Later 37...Bd8 instead of Bc5.> Looks to me like there is nothing better for White than a draw here. Hence we have to admit that Kramnik was at risk of losing the game, had Naiditsch found this continuation. |
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| Jul-01-07 | | Atking: <One line pointed out by Christiansen and somebody here was 32...Rd4 33.a7 Rb4 34.Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35.Ke2 Ra8 and Bc5 with a draw. Very hard to find that in a game.> Kangaroo, 32...R3d4!! look as a computer move. One day young talents like Carlsen will find this defensive scheme even in zeinot! |
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| Jul-01-07 | | Ulhumbrus: On 32..Rd3-d4 an alternative to 33 a7 Rb4!! 34 Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35 Ke2 Ra8! is 33 Rc1 Rb4 34 Rc1-c7. |
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| Jul-01-07 | | Ulhumbrus: On 32..Rd3-d4 an alternative to 33 a7 Rb4!! 34 Rxb4 Bxb4+ 35 Ke2 Ra8! is 33 Rc1 Rb4 34 Rc1-c7. As for 29..b4, On 29...b4! 30 Nxb4 Rxd4+ 31 Kxc3 Black is able to simplify and get a Rook to the second rank: 31...Rxb4 32 Rxb4 Bxb4+ 33 Kxb4 and now 33..Re2 forks the b2 and f2 pawns. On 34 Ka5 Rxf2 35 Kxa5 Rxh2 36 Kb6 Rxb2+ Black may have a draw at least. Can Black do still better? On 29...b4! 30 Nxb4 Rxd4+ 31 Kc3 one alternative to 31...Rxb4 is 31...Rd6 preparing both ..Re2 and ...Rc8+. In any case, can Black prefer seriously to struggle for a draw as in the game after 29...Rxd4 to the game he gets after 29...b4! closing the a file? I think not. |
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Jul-02-07
 | | Mateo: What about 41...f6? The point is that, when the White Rook comes on the 7th rank, there are only 2 Black pawns on that rank. This is an important difference. I could not find a clear win. If White follows the same plan, then: 41...f6 42.Ra5 Kf7 43.Ke2 Ke6 44.Kd3 (maybe 44.Kf3!?) Kd5 45.Kc3 Kc5 46.Ra7 g5 (here you see the difference with the position in the game). 1) 47.Rxh7 Rxb5 48.Rf7 Rb6 49.h4 gxh4 50.gxh4 Kd5 51.h5 Ke6, Black should draw. The Black Rook comes behind the extra pawn on the "h" file. 2)47.Rf7 Rb6. I don't see a clear win, neither a clear draw. Any idea?
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| Jul-02-07 | | Ulhumbrus: <notyetagm:
...Wow, that is a =great= example of <PROPHYLACTIC PLAY>, 29 ... b5-b4!.Does anyone have a <RYBKA EVAL> for the position after the prophylactic move 29 ... b5-b4! given above?> One meaning of the term "prophylactic" in the dictionary is a preventative course of medicine or action. I may be mistaken, but I understand a prophylactic move as Nimzovich used the term to be a move which prepares in advance for some type of pawn advance on the opponent's part, which is important to the opponent, by making that advance less healthy for the opponent ( and so possibly preventing it), eg if the opponent is going to play ...f5 or ...d5 against your e4 pawn, you double your Rooks on the e file behind the e pawn and so prepare to control the e file after ...f5 allows exf5, opening the e file. So doubling you Rooks on the e file can be called a prophylactic measure against the pawn advance ...d5, or against the pawn advance ...f5. |
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| Sep-24-08 | | Poisonpawns: 37..Bd8 easy draw R.I.P 37..Bc5?? |
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| Aug-15-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:
Kramnik vs Naiditsch, 2007.
YOU ARE PLAYING THE ROLE OF KRAMNIK.
Your score: 85 (par = 79)
LTJ |
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sac: 31.bxa6