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Kibitzing

Varuzhan Akobian vs The World
C U R R E N T P O S I T I O N

Can a group of chess amateurs team up to beat a grandmaster? Find out in the Chessgames Challenge! You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members on this page.

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[Varuzhan Akobian]

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GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2

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MOVES:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 O-O 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 b6 7.Bg5 Bb7 8.f3 h6 9.Bh4 d5 10.e3 Re8 11.Bd3 Nbd7 12.Ne2 e5 13.O-O c5 14.Rae1 Rc8 15.Bf5 cxd4 16.exd4 Rxc4 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Bd3 Ra4 19.Bxa6 Rxa6 20.dxe5 Nxe5 21.Bxf6 Qxf6 22.Nc3 d4 23.Nd5 Qd8 24.Qxd4 Ra5 25.Rd1 Rc5 26.h3 Rc4 27.Qd2 Qc8 28.Rfe1 Rc2 29.Qd4 Qxh3 30.Ne7+ Rxe7 31.Qd8+ Kh7 32.gxh3 Nxf3+ 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playing	it is now 17:00:01
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 328 OF 331 · Later Kibitzing>
Dec-11-11		WinKing: <YouRang: Woo hoo! I finally got one of my pun suggestions to pass inspection. Thanks <AylerKupp> and <WinKing> for the nominations. :-)> Your welcome <YouRang>. IMO the best 'pun' name so far for one of our games.

Dec-11-11		AylerKupp: <YouRang> I thought that it was an inspired pun particularly for its brevity.

Dec-11-11		Pedro Fernandez: <AylerKupp:In fact, I would think that the move that perhaps gave him the most thought was 21.Bxf6. He had to make the choice between a completely even game and one in which both side had chances, and he made the former choice.> I think your inference is entirely correct. With the change of his bishop GM Akobian simply chose the easiest way to maintain equality, avoiding acute variants which, in my opinion, neither would have given him a clear advantage since the position clearly presents equal opportunity for both sides. Precisely for this reason all our members have expressed their opinion about choosing more complex and less studied openings where there are greater risks but also an opportunity of having greater success.

Dec-11-11		Pedro Fernandez: <hms123: <Pedro Fernandez> A "keeper" is simply something (an idea like yours, for example) that is worth keeping (or having or writing down etc.) because it is good. It is a compliment. It is often used in the sport of fishing: a "keeper" would be a fish that was big enough to be legal to "keep" rather than to "release" back into the water.> My dear <hms123>, thanks a lot for your well aimed explanation. You know, I was a bit imprudent, by ignorance of course (I didn't know this section already was open) by claiming certain strategies which only concern to us. So I'm wondering if my dear <OhioChessFan> (so sorry bud) thought that I can not be trusted, my bad! and strike two!

Dec-12-11		tubebender: Do these games go into ChessBase and if so, do you guys think that this game should? I look forward to the next game whether it is against Akobian or another Grandmaster. One of my non-Chess playing co-workers was wondering if these games only prove that the search engines are just too damn good for even a Grandmaster to beat; sometimes our non-Chess playing friends can ask quite deep philosophical questions. Any feedback on this? Also, we should prepare for Akobian by scrutinizing his most recent efforts in the London event as well as his prior history. I learned a lot about methodology for my own OTB and CC preparations.

Dec-12-11		AylerKupp: <<tubebender> One of my non-Chess playing co-workers was wondering if these games only prove that the search engines are just too damn good for even a Grandmaster to beat> Make sure that your non-chess playing co-worker understands that there can be several different situations where chess engines can be used, and the answer may be different for each situation. One extreme is games like this one with a team of players with engines against a GM with an engine (or two) in a CC-type game with several days per move. The other extreme would be a GM against an engine in an OTB situation. In the later case there could be different time controls, from blitz to tournament. And there are many other possibilities in between, for example a lesser single player with an engine against a GM under shorter time controls than, say, 2 days per move. There are several situations where engines are known to be deficient; closed positions where strategic planning is required and endgames where the winning ideas may be beyond the engine's horizon to name two. In a one-on-one OTB game a GM's likelihood of success against a chess engine would improve if it can steer the chess engine into these types of positions. In a team game such as this one, particularly if there are several good players on the team, some of the chess engine's weaknesses are compensated so I would think that a GM's winning task would be very difficult, even with the White pieces. Still, you never know about team dynamics, and some of the chess engine's weaknesses such as lack of long-range planning also apply to a team situation. My opinion? Yes, I still think that it's still possible for a GM to beat a chess engine, whether alone OTB or as part of a team in a CC-type game. But the conditions must be just right, and I don't think that the odds are in the GM's favor. And, with both computers and chess engines getting stronger every day, the GM's odds are getting smaller.

Dec-12-11		kevin86: White has material advantage,but black's knight checks that...

Dec-12-11		chrisowen: Analysis shows why it is in level for having rade cooperating 0-0 kit queen <a3 bc3> redeploy it a cracker smite hiders on Im proud for one stint rock to knight d7 black f6 every dues it tarnish ok in grain feed tie what it mean 13?

Dec-12-11		karpkasp: Thanks to GM Akobian for playing this game and congrats to the WT members. As mentioned by <Lost in Space> we need a hidden area to prepare openings for the rematch. I've some ideas of unbalanced and unexplored positions maybe not totally understand by computers. I would be happy to discuss them with correspondence chess players and spacebar masters. From my viewpoint, a general forum & more specialized forums (at least one for 1. d4, one for 1. e4 one for 1. c4 & 1. Nf3) would be a good thing. Is this possible?

Dec-12-11		tubebender: Nice answer AylerKupp! My non-Chess playing coworker is a smart guy, 60 yrs. old (I`m 64), loves to read scientific magazines on just about anything but he only has a high school education and feels that he is too old to learn Chess; I even asked him 11 years ago when we first met. I think that your reply to my thoughts are not only good but I think it will be understood by him. By the way, I just want to say that just because one may have gone to college this does not necessarily imply any superiority to those who did not. You could even be what my dad called "an educated idiot".Also, for the record, I hope that none of my comments during this contest offended anyone, especially if it were in jest.

Dec-12-11		AylerKupp: <All> I've asked <chessgames.com> to set up the forum for the anticipated The World vs. Varuzhan Akobian rematch soon. That will provide us the privacy for pre-game planning that many are asking for. You can check out my request at chessgames.com chessforum. If anyone disagrees with anything I've said or would like to suggest something different (or something additional), I suggest that you leave a post at User: chessgames.com with your comments and suggestions.

Dec-12-11		AylerKupp: <tubebender> I'm glad that you liked my suggestion and that you have a co-worker that has expressed an interest in learning chess. Hopefully you can introduce him to the many beauties of the game. And tell him that I also said that no one is ever too old to learn chess as long as they have the interest and motivation. I've never equated higher education with superior intelligence. Often it's just a case of lack of opportunity, desire, or perceived benefit. And I occasionally find highly educated people who seem to lack common sense. I think that in an ideal world everyone who has the desire and capability would be able to obtain as much education as they wish as long as they have the ability and work ethic to absorb it. Alas, we're not in that world yet. Don't worry too much if your comments offended anyone, you're not offensive by nature. I have a problem in that by nature I tend to be sarcastic, sometimes without realizing it, and often people can't tell if I'm joking or not. I had an employee who would constantly worry about things I said in my e-mails because she did not understand my sense of humor. I solved that problem by adding a :-) or a ;-) to statements that I meant to be funny but that could be misinterpreted; that's why I often do that in my posts. I think that we all have to be more careful than usual in these international chessforums because there are many readers for which English is not their native language and some of the things that we say may be more easily misinterpreted than usual. But I think that a :-) or ;-) are pretty universal and help to remove doubt as to whether you're serious or trying to be funny.

Dec-14-11		WinKing: Voting Statistics - GM Varuzhan Akobian vs. Chessgames World Team Move / Members at time of vote / # that voted / % vote / (*Draw requests - %* - listed only if over 10%) 33.Kf1 - DRAW ACCEPTED 32...Nxf3+ / 1507 / 263 / 17.5% / (181/263 - 68%* with Draw Offer) 31...Kh7 / 1489 / 237 / 16.3% / (*85/237 - 35%) 30...Rxe7 / 1467 / 242 / 16.5% / (80/242 - 33%) 29...Qxh3 / 1450 / 243 / 16.8% / (105/243 - 43%) 28...Rc2 / 1431 / 190 / 13.3% / (26/190 - 13%) 27...Qc8 / 1426 / 188 / 13.2% / (33/188 - 17%) 26...Rc4 / 1415 / 187 / 13.2% / (58/187 - 31%) 25...Rc5 / 1396 / 205 / 14.7% / (36/205 - 17%) 24...Ra5 / 1383 / 209 / 15.1% / (41/209 - 19%) 23...Qd8 / 1363 / 202 / 14.8% / (41/202 - 20%) 22...d4 / 1352 / 200 / 14.8% / (54/200 - 27%) 21...Qxf6 / 1329 / 233 / 17.5% / (50/233 - 21%) 20...Nxe5 / 1312 / 191 / 14.6% 19...Rxa6 / 1301 / 216 / 16.6% 18...Ra4 / 1287 / 177 / 13.8% 17...Ba6 / 1275 / 238 / 18.7% 16...Rxc4 / 1260 / 207 / 16.4% 15...cxd4 / 1244 / 217 / 17.4% 14...Rc8 / 1220 / 220 / 18.0% 13...c5 / 1207 / 232 / 19.2% 12...e5 / 1179 / 246 / 20.9% 11...Nbd7 / 1165 / 248 / 21.3% 10...Re8 / 1147 / 283 / 24.7% 9...d5 / 1135 / 263 / 23.2% 8...h6 / 1110 / 272 / 24.5% 7...Bb7 / 1071 / 247 / 23.1% 6...b6 / 1048 / 300 / 28.6% 5...Bxc3+ / 1019 / 253 / 24.8% 4...O-O / 978 / 333 / 34.0% 3...Bb4 / 938 / 347 / 36.9% 2...e6 / 861 / 375 / 43.6% 1...Nf6 / 768 / 322 / 41.9% If draw requests reach over 50% a draw is then offered to GMVA**

Dec-14-11		WinKing: PART ONE VOTING - MOVES 1-16 *GMVA vs. THE WORLD* _________________________________________ 16...Rxc4 198 votes (95.7%) 16...g5 5 votes (2.4%) 16...dxc4 2 votes (1.0%) Total votes - 207 / # on team 1260 / 16.4% __________________________________________ 15...cxd4 194 votes (89.4%) 15...Rc6 7 votes (3.2%) 15...cd4 4 votes (1.8%) 15...e4 2 votes (0.9%) 15...g5 2 votes (0.9%) Total votes - 217 / # on team 1244 / 17.4% __________________________________________ 14...Rc8 146 votes (66.4%) 14...cxd4 25 votes (11.4%) 14...Ba6 20 votes (9.1%) 14...Qc7 13 votes (5.9%) 14...exd4 5 votes (2.3%) 14...Ne4 3 votes (1.4%) 14...a5 2 votes (0.9%) Total votes - 220 / # on team 1220 / 18.0% __________________________________________ 13...c5 210 votes (90.5%) 13...e4 10 votes (4.3%) 13...g5 3 votes (1.3%) 13...exd4 2 votes (0.9%) Total votes - 232 / # on team 1207 / 19.2% __________________________________________ 12...e5 166 votes (67.5%) 12...c5 47 votes (19.1%) 12...Ba6 16 votes (6.5%) 12...Ne4 7 votes (2.8%) 12...g5 3 votes (1.2%) 12...Rc8 2 votes (0.8%) Total votes - 246 / # on team 1179 / 20.9% ___________________________________________ 11...Nbd7 213 votes (85.9%) 11...c5 22 votes (8.9%) 11...Nc6 3 votes (1.2%) 11...NBd7 2 votes (0.8%) Total votes - 247 / # on team 1165 / 21.2% ___________________________________________ 10...Re8 130 votes (45.9%) 10...Nbd7 127 votes (44.9%) 10...c5 6 votes (2.1%) 10...Nc6 4 votes (1.4%) 10...Ne4 3 votes (1.1%) 10...a5 2 votes (0.7%) 10...g5 2 votes (0.7%) Total votes - 283 / # on team 1147 / 24.7% ___________________________________________ 9...d5 188 votes (71.5%) 9...d6 61 votes (23.2%) 9...g5 6 votes (2.3%) 9...c5 2 votes (0.8%) 9...Nc6 2 votes (0.8%) Total votes - 263 / # on team 1135 / 23.2% ___________________________________________ 8...h6 166 votes (61.0%) 8...d6 67 votes (24.6%) 8...d5 25 votes (9.2%) 8...c5 10 votes (3.7%) 8...a5 2 votes (0.7%) Total votes - 272 / # on team 1110 / 24.5% ___________________________________________ 7...Bb7 164 votes (66.4%) 7...Ba6 36 votes (14.6%) 7...h6 19 votes (7.7%) 7...d5 12 votes (4.9%) 7...Ne4 7 votes (2.8%) 7...a5 2 votes (0.8%) 7...c5 2 votes (0.8%) Total votes - 247 / # on team 1071 / 23.1% ___________________________________________ 6...b6 169 votes (56.3%) 6...d5 87 votes (29.0%) 6...b5 14 votes (4.7%) 6...Ne4 10 votes (3.3%) 6...d6 6 votes (2.0%) 6...h6 6 votes (2.0%) 6...Nc6 3 votes (1.0%) 6...c5 3 votes (1.0%) Total votes - 300 / # on team 1048 / 28.6% ___________________________________________ 5...Bxc3+ 229 votes (90.5%) 5...Be7 17 votes (6.7%) Total Votes - 253 / # on team 1019 / 24.8% ___________________________________________ 4...O-O 178 votes (53.5%) 4...c5 80 votes (24.0%) 4...d5 40 votes (12.0%) 4...b6 16 votes (4.8%) 4...Nc6 9 votes (2.7%) 4...Bxc3 2 votes (0.6%) Total Votes - 333 / # on team 978 / 34.0% ___________________________________________ 3...Bb4 243 votes (70.0%) 3...d5 69 votes (19.9%) 3...c5 22 votes (6.3%) 3...b6 4 votes (1.2%) 3...Nc6 3 votes (0.9%) 3...g6 2 votes (0.6%) Total Votes - 347 / # on team 938 / 36.9% ___________________________________________ 2...e6 190 votes (50.7%) 2...g6 157 votes (41.9%) 2...c5 10 votes (2.7%) 2...Nc6 6 votes (1.6%) 2...d5 3 votes (0.8%) 2...e5 3 votes (0.8%) 2...c6 2 votes (0.5%) Total Votes - 375 / # on team 861 / 43.6% ___________________________________________ 1...Nf6 213 votes (66.1%) 1...d5 60 votes (18.6%) 1...f5 19 votes (5.9%) 1...e6 12 votes (3.7%) 1...d6 3 votes (0.9%) 1...g6 3 votes (0.9%) 1...c5 3 votes (0.9%) 1...b6 2 votes (0.6%) 1...1-0 2 votes (0.6%) Total Votes - 322 / # on team 768 / 41.9% ___________________________________________

Dec-14-11		WinKing: All moves voted for <GM Varuzhan Akobian> vs. <Chessgames World Team> PART TWO (*Moves that had only 1 vote do not show up in the statistics*) ______________________________________ 32...Nxf3+ 247 votes (93.9%) 32...Rd7 8 votes (3.0%) Total votes - 263 / # on team 1507 / 17.5% ______________________________________ 31...Kh7 166 votes (70.0%) 31...Re8 66 votes (27.8%) Total votes - 242 / # on team 1489 / 16.3% ______________________________________ 30...Rxe7 187 votes (77.3%) 30...Kf8 29 votes (12.0%) 30...Kh8 8 votes (3.3%) 30...Qxg2# 8 votes (3.3%) 30...Re7 5 votes (2.1%) Total votes - 237 / # on team 1467 / 16.5% _______________________________________ 29...Qxh3 215 votes (88.5%) 29...Ng6 13 votes (5.3%) 29...Rc4 3 votes (1.2%) 29...Qc3 2 votes (0.8%) Total votes - 243 / # on team 1450 / 16.8% _______________________________________ 28...Rc2 165 votes (86.8%) 28...Kh8 6 votes (3.2%) 28...Qxh3 4 votes (2.1%) 28...Qc5+ 4 votes (2.1%) 28...Qf5 2 votes (1.1%) 28...Nxf3+ 2 votes (1.1%) 28...Re6 2 votes (1.1%) Total votes - 190 / # on team 1431 / 13.3% _______________________________________ 27...Qc8 153 votes (81.4%) 27...Qh4 12 votes (6.4%) 27...Rc5 5 votes (2.7%) 27...Nc6 3 votes (1.6%) 27...Ng6 3 votes (1.6%) 27...Rc6 2 votes (1.1%) 27...Qd6 2 votes (1.1%) Total votes - 188 / # on team 1426 / 13.2% ________________________________________ 26...Rc4 97 votes (51.9%) 26...Nc6 26 votes (13.9%) 26...Kf8 25 votes (13.4%) 26...Nc4 19 votes (10.2%) 26...Rc2 6 votes (3.2%) 26...Qc8 3 votes (1.6%) 26...Qd6 3 votes (1.6%) 26...Ng6 2 votes (1.1%) Total votes - 187 / # on team 1415 / 13.2% ________________________________________ 25...Rc5 165 votes (80.5%) 25...Nc6 23 votes (11.2%) 25...Qd6 6 votes (2.9%) 25...Kf8 2 votes (1.0%) Total votes - 205 / # on team 1396 / 14.7% ________________________________________ 24...Ra5 198 votes (94.7%) 24...Ng6 3 votes (1.4%) 24...Nc6 2 votes (1.0%) Total votes - 209 / # on team 1383 / 15.1% _________________________________________ 23...Qd8 176 votes (87.1%) 23...Qd6 14 votes (6.9%) 23...Qd8# 4 votes (2.0%) 23...Qd8+ 2 votes (1.0%) 23...Qc6 2 votes (1.0%) Total votes - 202 / # on team 1363 / 14.8% _________________________________________ 22...d4 106 votes (53.0%) 22...Rd8 85 votes (42.5%) 22...Ra5 4 votes (2.0%) Total votes - 200 / # on team 1352 / 14.8% _________________________________________ 21...Qxf6 223 votes (95.7%) 21...gxf6 5 votes (2.1%) Total votes - 233 / # on team 1329 / 17.5% _________________________________________ 20...Nxe5 167 votes (87.4%) 20...Rxe5 14 votes (7.3%) 20...Ne4 7 votes (3.7%) Total votes - 191 / # on team 1312 / 14.6% _________________________________________ 19...Rxa6 205 votes (94.9%) 19...Ne4 5 votes (2.3%) Total votes - 216 / # on team 1301 / 16.6% _________________________________________ 18...Ra4 156 votes (88.1%) 18...e4 13 votes (7.3%) 18...g5 2 votes (1.1%) Total votes - 177 / # on team 1287 / 13.8% __________________________________________ 17...Ba6 142 votes (59.7%) 17...Nc5 70 votes (29.4%) 17...Qc7 19 votes (8.0%) Total votes - 238 / # on team 1275 / 18.7% __________________________________________

Dec-14-11		WinKing: Some other statistical facts: The average voting percentage per move was 19.7% if you take into account all 32 moves. The average number of votes per move by the team was 243.

Dec-14-11		whiteshark: <WinKing: Voting Statistics - GM Varuzhan Akobian vs. Chessgames World Team <Move / Members at time of vote / # that voted / % vote >> Thanks alot for your huge statistical work!! Here is another facet derived from the data: The highest number of votes has been <375> (on move 2), the lowest number has been <177> (on move 18). If you put <375> as maximum than the 'active participation' has been in the range between 47.2% and 100%. :D

Dec-14-11		WinKing: <whiteshark: If you put <375> as maximum than the 'active participation' has been in the range between 47.2% and 100%.> <whiteshark> you make an excellent point. I figure that probably 50-60% of the people that sign up to be on the team are spectators just wanting to see the game and may not vote. That would mean that the percentage of persons voting among the active participants on the team would be much higher as you allude to.

Dec-14-11		chesstoplay: Re: Voters Four of the non-voters are my private scholastic students. We used this game as a study for board positions. :)

Dec-15-11		Golden Executive: Talking about active participation: Right now are <328 pages> of kibitzing: AylerKupp 22 cro777 19 Kb2ct 15 Waitaka 13 WinKing 12 ---------- Sub-total a) 81 = 24.7% cormier 11 ChrisOwen 9 capafan 8 YouRang 8 Tabanus 7 blue wave 6 Golden Executive 6 hugin 6 DpLeo 5 hms123 5 Parmetd 5 Sofouuk 5 Boomie 4 imag 4 karpkasp 4 Random Visitor 4 ----------- Sub-total b) 97 = 29.6% Total a) + b) = 178 Just <5> members posted almost <25%> of the whole kibitzing ! Just <21> members posted more than <50%> of the whole kibitzing !

Dec-16-11		AylerKupp: Why am I not surprised (and I doubt that anybody else was) that I was the most verbose? :-(

Dec-16-11		AylerKupp: <Golden Executive> And, if you have nothing better to do and really want to find out about active participation, also take into account the kibitzing in the various user forums: <RandomVisitor>, <sofouuk>, <WinKing>, <hms123>, <Analysis Forum>, <capafan>, <isemeria>, and yours, as well as any others that I might have forgotten. Hopefully you'll find that someone was even more verbose than I was!

Dec-16-11		Golden Executive: ++++++++++FLASH BACK+++++++++++ About <AylerKupp> at Pogo´s game: <Jan-28-11 Waitaka: His posts are allways positive, patient and kind. What he did a fantastic job, not only regarding hard work and chess analysis, but also about team dynamics and communication.> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ <Waitaka> said it exactly! Thanks <AylerKupp> for all your contributions to the World Team.

Dec-16-11		blue wave: Yes, thanks <AK>. Your work ethic in these games is remarkable!

Dec-16-11		blue wave: I've wondered if one of Jepflast's Analysis Tree's could be used for preparing for the opening? Its private and secure (I think?). Paste the opening line in your interested in and start discussing and studying it. Just an idea anyway.

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