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Mar-10-24 | | ZonszeinP: There was a blunder by Spassky against Larsen in 1970.
I stand corrected |
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Mar-10-24 | | fabelhaft: My Larsen favourites are his wins against Petrosian in Piatigorsky Cup 1966. Not often a reigning World Champion, that is extremely difficult to beat, loses both games against an opponent, and both on top of that are quite pretty in different ways. |
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Feb-26-25 | | Olavi: The introduction states that also Smyslov won three Interzonals, that's incorrect (and is not on the Smyslov page), Amsterdam 1964 was his only win. |
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Feb-26-25
 | | Troller: <Olavi> - indeed. Tal and Larsen are the only players with 3 Interzonal wins. A limited number of players have 2 wins: Bronstein, Fischer, Gelfand, Mecking and Portisch. At the moment, these lists are not likely to grow... |
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Mar-18-25
 | | gezafan: Has anyone read Larsen's book on the 1978 Karpov-Korchnoi match? Do you recommend it? |
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Mar-18-25 | | areknames: <gezafan: Has anyone read Larsen's book on the 1978 Karpov-Korchnoi match? Do you recommend it?> Yes, I still have it after all these years. I highly recommend it. As well as being one of my favourite players, Larsen is my favourite writer. |
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Mar-20-25
 | | Troller: I also have that book and can confirm <areknames>' verdict. The introduction and maybe some other parts are written by Michael Stean but the game annotations are by Larsen. He knows both players pretty well which is a benefit. Only problem (for me) is that it is in descriptive notation. I am not sure if it can be found in an algebraic version; I picked up my copy in a second-hand shop in the US. |
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Mar-20-25 | | Granny O Doul: I remember the book came out something like three days after match end. It cost about three dollars or maybe four. |
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Mar-30-25
 | | FSR: <Olavi: The introduction states that also Smyslov won three Interzonals, that's incorrect (and is not on the Smyslov page), Amsterdam 1964 was his only win.> True. He did also win, however, in addition to that Interzonal, Zuerich Candidates (1953) (by 2 points) and Amsterdam Candidates (1956) (1.5 points). |
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Mar-30-25
 | | perfidious: How many IZs did Petrosian win? How many times was he a candidate? We know what happened to Kotov and Fischer after booking easy victories in Interzonals. Mecking also got there twice, but bought the farm in candidates matches. Nearly half the field qualified from Goteborg 1955, so the matter of who won that was of far lesser importance than of qualification. Even Botvinnik acknowledged, long after the fact, that Smyslov was the strongest player in the world in the 1950s. |
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Mar-30-25
 | | FSR: <perfidious> Smyslov's performance in those two Candidates tournaments was much more dominating than Botvinnik's record in world championship matches. He only impressed in the 1948 match-tournament and the return matches against Smyslov and Tal. His other results consisted of drawing Bronstein and Smyslov in 1951 and 1954, losing by three points to Smyslov in 1957, losing by four to Tal in 1960, and losing by three to Petrosian in 1963. I guess it's psychologically easier to seek a title you don't have than to try to hold onto the title you already have. From 1935 through 1963, the titleholder never won a match. In 1966, Petrosian became the first titleholder since Alekhine against Bogolyubov to actually win a championship match. |
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Mar-30-25
 | | Joshka: Didn't know Larsen wrote on the match, how does it compare with Ray Keene's book? |
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Mar-30-25
 | | perfidious: <FSR>, one consistent theme, and not only here at CG, has been to slag Botvinnik based on those match results--and there is no denying them--but he was the greatest player of the 1940s and past his peak by the time he sat down to face Bronstein in 1951. Much as I admire Bronstein's approach, he never seriously contended in his two subsequent candidates' appearances in the face of Smyslov and came unstuck in his infamous loss to Cardoso at Portoroz the cycle after that, his swan song in championship competition, aged 34. Smyslov only got near another crack at the title when he was well past sixty, although he had little chance against the implacable Kasparov. Tal's best chance at climbing back in the ring was in his loss to Spassky, but again, he was facing an opponent on top form, who kept matters level before Tal went off the rails at the close. While Petrosian's tournament results were, in keeping with those of champions from Botvinnik to Spassky, indifferent at times during his reign, he proved a tough out heads-up, and held his own till the late stages of the 1969 bout. Petrosian remained a top GM and would play the candidates' matches four more times before his death at 55, though as was true of others named here, never looking like going all the way. I wonder whether any of the players above could have played all those championship matches and bettered Botvinnik's results in toto. |
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Mar-31-25
 | | FSR: <perfidious: <FSR>, one consistent theme, and not only here at CG, has been to slag Botvinnik based on those match results--and there is no denying them--but he was the greatest player of the 1940s and past his peak by the time he sat down to face Bronstein in 1951.> That is a valid point. Botvinnik was a few months shy of 40 when he faced Bronstein in 1951. His later matches were played in his forties and even fifties. Almost every player declines significantly after age 35 or 40. |
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Mar-31-25
 | | perfidious: <FSR....In 1966, Petrosian became the first titleholder since Alekhine against Bogolyubov to actually win a championship match.> Indeed, and he was not up against a milksop in relative terms, unlike the following scenario noted by Sergeant: <....Nevertheless, it was Bogoljuboff who was the accepted challenger. Now, while it could not be denied that Bogoljuboff's tournament record, particularly his first prizes at Moscow in 1925 and Kissingen in 1928, gave him a claim to a match against Alekhine, it cannot be said that any but one result was expected. The question was by how much Alekhine would win....> Then we have Alekhine's own opinion expressed after the second match: <This game - more than any other - proves how useless from the sporting point of view was the arrangement of this second match, and at the same time explains my indifferent play on a number of occasions.> Carlsen - Karjakin World Championship Match (2016) (kibitz #32) |
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Apr-01-25
 | | MarcusBierce: < Much as I admire Bronstein's approach, he never seriously contended in his two subsequent candidates' appearances in the face of Smyslov and came unstuck in his infamous loss to Cardoso at Portoroz the cycle after that, his swan song in championship competition, aged 34.> Revisit his results from 63-64, and how, without chess affirmative action, he would have been in the Candidates Matches. That was his “last gasp,” not before. |
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Apr-01-25
 | | perfidious: I take orders from no-one here and stand by what I posted. The 'affirmative action' remark is repugnant, as is your peremptory tone. Save those for another page. For all that, Bronstein was a near-miss on both counts. Unfortunate, but so it goes when one is at--or near--the very top. Attempt to play revisionist historian all you wish, as elsewhere, but I can also cite 1951, when he had Botvinnik on the ropes and did not get there. There was no heartless FIDE to put the boot in on that occasion and pave the way for others' excuses. |
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Apr-01-25
 | | MarcusBierce: <perfidious> The historical record shows that Bronstein was very much in the WC mix through the ‘64 Amsterdam Interzonal. For a clearer picture <one may wish to revisit> Bronstein’s results from ‘63-‘64, especially early 1964. Posters who wish to be informed of the truth of the matter will hopefully do so. After being a bit “at sea” from ‘58-‘62, Bronstein clearly was focused on reaching the very top for one last time. USSR Zonal (1964)/David Bronstein Beating such luminaries as Stein and Korchnoi to qualify for the Amsterdam Interzonal. Amsterdam Interzonal (1964)/David Bronstein. Ivkov and Portisch moving on to the candidates matches over Bronstein and Stein remains one of the greatest travesties ever seen in post WWII chess championship competition. Amsterdam Interzonal (1964) Was even worse for Stein: 1.5 points ahead of Ivkov, a full 2 points ahead of Portisch. Bronstein 1 and 1.5, respectively. Both stayed home. And it doesn’t end there. Per the tournament page < Botvinnik later (in March 1965 (3)) withdrew from the cycle so that Efim Geller (who failed to qualify in the USSR Zonal (1964) and therefore did not play in the Interzonal) went to the Candidates matches after all (by virtue of his placement in Curacao).> Revisiting the USSR Zonal one <may> notice the following results: Stein and Bronstein tied for second with 6.5, Geller in the basement with 5 Bronstein was locked in during these two tournaments, and his results and quality of play are evidence of it. … at 40 years-old no less.
Geller, Ivkov, and Portisch advanced to the Candidates Matches after clearly performing worse than Stein and Bronstein in the relevant qualification events. Repugnant indeed. |
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Apr-07-25
 | | FSR: <perfidious> I don't think it's fair to call Bogo a milksop. He had an excellent tournament record, including first at some extremely strong events. If he was a milksop, so was Euwe in 1935. Maybe a milksop squared, since he'd lost two matches to Bogolyubow. Alekhine - Euwe World Championship Match (1935). And Alekhine was widely considered a milksop when he faced Capablanca in 1927: <Prior to the match, Capablanca dominated New York (1927), finishing 2½ points in front of Alekhine, who took second. Alekhine had never won a single game from Capablanca, so it was perhaps understandable that some doubted he could win six match games against him. Geza Maroczy predicted victory was bound to go to Capablanca, and Rudolf Spielmann said he would be surprised if Alekhine "were to win even a single game."> Capablanca - Alekhine World Championship Match (1927) (citations omitted). As you'll recall, Alekhine won in 1927, and Euwe in 1935. |
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Apr-07-25 | | Petrosianic: <FSR>: <I don't think it's fair to call Bogo a milksop. He had an excellent tournament record,> When you're a world class player, you're going to be remembered by how well you did against other world class players. It doesn't matter how many lesser lights people like Janowski, Bogo, Marshall, Larsen, et al destroy. When you reach their level you have to succeed against the best of the best. Larsen sometimes did. His 1970 win against Fischer and his 1979 win against Karpov are joys to behold. But against those, there are a lotta goose eggs. But that raises a good question. What was Bogo's best win against Alekhine (or any other top player)? Off the top of my head, I really have no idea. I mostly remember the poorly-played-on-both-sides 1934 match. What was Janowski's best win against Lasker? Again, no idea. Marshall at least won two fairly decent games from Capablanca. |
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Apr-07-25
 | | perfidious: <FSR>, I thought I made my views clear; Bogolyubov was indeed a formidable tournament player and enjoyed a stretch where his results in that métier were a match for anyone--good enough to propel him to the top spot on Sonas' listing for a time--but he never came close to equalling such accomplishments when sitting opposite Alekhine heads-up, just as Larsen came to grief at the very highest levels. |
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Apr-08-25
 | | FSR: <perfidious> I think with the benefit of hindsight it's easy to denigrate Bogolyubow, but I think that Alekhine in 1927 and especially Euwe in 1935 must have also seemed to most people like challengers who didn't stand a chance against the reigning champion. I would say that Euwe is generally regarded as something of a joke world champion, often unfairly spoken of along the lines of "the guy who became world champion because Alekhine was drunk." |
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Apr-08-25
 | | perfidious: <FSR>, I have a vague recollection of Alekhine discussing the first match and how he became careless after taking that early three-point lead. In Kazic's <Championship Chess>, there is an interview with Botvinnik in which he speaks highly of the Dutch grandmaster, noting that Euwe gave him a difficult time in their pre-war encounters. He made a remark to the effect that it was only when they met in 1948 that he was able to level the score between them, what with Euwe's play having 'tapered off' by then. |
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Apr-09-25 | | Petrosianic: <Those> three point leads. Alekhine actually had three point leads twice, once after Game 7, which he lost, and again after Game 9. Then Euwe equalize the score, Alekhine took another two point lead, and lost that too. That's more than just carelessness. Euwe turned out to be better than his previous reputation, or his start in this match indicated. |
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Apr-09-25
 | | perfidious: Merely quoting what I remembered; been a long while since I read that passage. |
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