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Mar-30-08 | | Eyal: (Part 2 of 4)
<The esthetic element, for the player, is expressed through his joy in finding and
successfully executing over the board beautiful and hard-to-find ideas. The spectators (and
most of us find ourselves on both sides: sometimes we play, sometimes we watch) gain
enjoyment from the players’ discoveries, usually after the fact when they play over already played
games. Then they can enjoy not only the moves actually played, but also the sharp
ideas that remained behind the scenes, yet were noted in commentaries. The best examples
of chess creativity are retained for many years, examined repeatedly in the pages of
magazines and books, giving joy to new chess enthusiasts, increasing their love for our
game, and their respect for its leading specialists, capable of creating such beauty over the
board. Here, I see a most important distinguishing feature of chess, separating it from any
other form of sport in which the most interesting part of the game is over when the
tournament concludes. This is one of our trump cards, and we must not, under any
circumstances, devalue the creative element of the game of chess.One of the main criteria of beauty (along with subtlety and originality) is the soundness, the
correctness of the moves, of the individual ideas, or of entire games. And here is where I
have some doubts about the future of chess-960.
Recall our examination of Zvjaginsev’s novelty [1 e4 c5 2.Na3!?]. Into the standard Sicilian position one fresh element is introduced, and immediately we have problems not easily solved over the board. But there, we could at least give a qualified assessment of the plusses and minuses
of this or that way of continuing the game, since we could refer to a known setup of the
remaining pieces, and tested plans of action in similar situations. But in Fischer chess, where the majority of the pieces – if not all of them – are standing in
unusual positions, we must deal with many new and unknown elements. As a result, a
chessplayer has almost nothing to refer to in looking for a move; he’s playing “without line
or compass.”
I can assure you that even leading grandmasters play a weak game of chess-960, full of
both strategic and tactical errors. Some of these blunders are immediately evident; others
are not easily uncovered, even during analysis, in view of the absence of reliable and
proven positional benchmarks. Fine, deeply considered decisions, close to the level of the
best achievements of traditional chess, become practically impossible. True, somewhere in
the midst of the middlegame, the position usually begins to look something like “normal” –
that is, familiar to us. But by that time, the players already have no thinking time left,
because they had to use it all resolving the hugely complex problems of planned
development from the very first moves. So these games almost never show us any aesthetic
value.
If we remember how hard it can be to discover the secrets of a position even in traditional
chess, where we can refer to many generations’ worth of experience, what I’m saying
becomes logically obvious. Nonetheless, I shall illustrate my idea with a concrete example.> |
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Mar-30-08 | | Eyal: (Part 3 of 4)
<Grandmaster Yusupov showed me the opening of two games from the Mainz tournament of
2005, both played in the same round. On that day, the game began with the following
position:
 click for larger viewAronian – Bacrot
1 e4 e5 2 Nd3 Ng6?! 3 f4! Bf6? (3…Nf6) 4 Nc5 Rd8 5 Qb5 Nd6 6 Nxd7+ Rxd7 7 Qxd7, and
White parlayed his exchange plus into a win.
What’s to be said about this? Levon Aronian spotted one of the tactical peculiarities of this
starting position: the weakness at d7. He chose a developmental scheme, allowing him to mount a
quick attack on this weakness in his opponent’s camp (while simultaneously attacking another one
at b7). His opponent, meanwhile, brought out his pieces with no suspicion of the danger threatening him. The same motifs appeared in the following game, where it was Black who exploited the
weakness at d2:
Hertneck – Morozevich
1 d4 This move looks weaker than 1 e4, since it doesn’t open any lines for White’s pieces.
Evidently, Hertneck intended to develop the knight at d3, but did not wish to place it in front of
the pawn. This is a positional consideration taken from classical chess, laid down as a rule back in
the 18th century, as far back as Philidor. But is it correct to follow it in this situation? Nobody
knows. 1…f5 2 Nd3 Nf6 3 f3 g5 Strange. Instead of developing his pieces and fighting for the center, Alexander Morozevich advances a wing pawn – apparently for the same reason that I used
to explain Gerald Hertneck’s opening move: he wanted to develop the knight on g6.
4 e4 fe 5 fe? Nxe4! The queen is untouchable, because of the mate on d2. Clearly the German GM overlooked an elementary tactical shot, although after 6 Qe1, he definitely had compensation for the pawn in the form of Black’s lagging development (Morozevich went on to win the game). White should have played 5 Nc5, with threats of 6 Qb5, 6 Nxb7 and 6 fe. Black would
probably have had to protect his queenside with the “non-standard” 6…c6 7 fe Rc7
(without fear of 8 e5? Ne4!), but the position looks better for White. On the other hand, I
wouldn’t stake my life on any of my evaluations so far. This is all very curious and funny – but that’s all. The level of play demonstrated here by
grandmasters isn’t much different from (to take an example from traditional chess) the
efforts, successful or unsuccessful, to exploit the weakness at f7 from the starting position,
and deliver the “scholars mate.” Of course we need to take into account the fact that in
Mainz, the games were played in rapid chess; however, I suspect that, even under a
classical time-control, the quality of play would not have risen very much.> |
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Mar-30-08 | | Eyal: (part 4 of 4)
<In the early days of chess, many such naïve games were played. As experience grew, so did
the understanding of the principles of opening play; new schemes of battle appeared and
were worked upon, and those that didn’t work out were tossed aside. For example, it
became clear that certain gambits were not too promising; others, by contrast (like the
Queen’s Gambit), were positionally well-founded. Some excessively categorical statements
(such as Tarrasch’s thesis that it’s wrong to accept the Queen’s Gambit, because the white
bishop can then get to c4 in one move, without loss of tempo) appeared, and then lost their
power. The conception that one need not occupy the center with pawns, but could attack it
with pieces instead, proved viable. And it was this kind of idea-filled development of views
on the opening that undoubtedly aided the progress of chess – it was a positive thing, until
the time came when the process had grown into an enormous mass of purely concrete
information, needing daily absorption by generations of modern chess players.But in chess-960, there will be practically no accumulation of experience: there are too
many opening positions, and too many differences between them. And thus, the concept of
the opening phase will find itself frozen, for a long time, at a childhood level. Let me summarize, briefly: Playing Fischer-random is undoubtedly interesting (and
probably even useful: overcoming routine, and developing an unfettered approach to the
position). But studying played games is of no interest, because it’s almost impossible for
anything creatively important to come from them (when measured against the level that
both amateurs and experts in classical chess have grown accustomed to). So switching to
this new game involves a serious risk that we may lose the aesthetic element of chess – and
consequently, a great number of its adherents.> (http://www.chesscafe.com/text/dvore...) |
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Apr-30-08 | | Gene M: M.Dvoretsky wrote (at ChessCafe.com):
As experience grew, so did the understanding of the principles of opening play; new schemes of battle appeared and were worked upon, and those that didn’t work out were tossed aside. For example, it became clear that certain gambits were not too promising;
Opening "principles" are a different subject than whether this or that particular opening "gambit" (usually a pawn sac) works.
Indeed, some of the 9 chess opening "principles" that Reuben Fine wrote about are not really principles at all. Some are more about particular tactical sequences that are esoteric to the hyper-analysis of the same one start position that is endlessly reused in traditional chess. The future may be a COMPROMISE: one FRC start position is announced (in advance) for each year (or for a whole WCChamp cycle); after which it expires, and a new start position is announced.
This would give grandmasters lots of opportunities to focus their creativity on rich new opening possibilities. The challenge would not be to find any decent opening novelty not already played before move-pair 20, but rather to find a stronger novelty than your opponent will likely find.
This would make the first dozen move-pairs exciting again. |
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Jun-24-08
 | | nasmichael: <Gene M.> That would be a very interesting idea. That would be nice for classes too...imagine for chess students the option for "veteran" players to play against a coach after studying it for 15 minutes or so before the game... |
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Jun-27-08
 | | Ron: Here is an article by Malcom Pein on a FischerRandom chess game played by Nakamura--though reading the article it seems that Malcom Pein got Nakamura's internet handle wrong:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/mai... |
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Jun-27-08 | | Ziggurat: <Ron> I think he does use the handle Smallville, although you might have other information suggesting that he used another handle in this particular event. |
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Jul-21-08 | | vikinx: I like position #395. You can castle right away.:)
 click for larger view |
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Jul-21-08 | | vikinx: Position #414 looks just like #54, except the queenside rooks and knights are switched places.Position #414:
 click for larger view |
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Aug-08-08 | | vikinx: Why isn't anyone kibitzing here? |
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Aug-23-08 | | JimmyVermeer: I just discovered this page, which is why I haven't kibitzed here before. By the way, it is not unrealistic for a great chessplayer to memorize opening lines in each of 960 possible starting configurations, particularly if it was a player who specialized in Fischerandom chess. |
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Sep-07-08 | | artyom2008: cmon anybody wanna do some analisis on arno nickel no ? my fourm |
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Nov-10-08 | | wsj3: I am a huge proponent of this variant. At first I was for pure shuffle chess (no castling, bishops can be on the same color squares) which has over 5,000 starting positions. But after playing FRC, however, and going over other people's games, I became hooked. With the bishops on opposite colors and castling maintained, the flavor of classical chess is very much intact. Standard chess seems boring and done-to-death in comparison.
I do have one slight objection concerning castling in 960. If there is no longer any "kingside" or "queenside", then why the need for two types of castling? If you look at it objectively, it only makes sense to castle the same way on either side, ie, 0-0, as we all know, is Kg1 and Rf1. But my contention is that 0-0-0 should be the same on the other side (Kb1 and Rc1). This seems logical to me, unless I'm missing something. I'm curious to know what everyone thinks but I won't hold my breath for an official rule change anytime soon! |
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Dec-22-08 | | WhiteRook48: THere was a position where Karpov's pieces looked like Fischerandom:
White: Nb1, Nc1, Rd1, Ke1, Bf1, Qg1, Rh1. And just for fun I'll add...
Ba1
Anyone want to play this new position? |
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Dec-24-08 | | WhiteRook48: It would be fun if Morphy played positions like this. |
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Jan-29-09 | | vikinx: Can anyone tell me what number is for this position?
 click for larger view
Yes, I know this is the original position, but I just want to know. |
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Jan-29-09 | | vikinx: I figured it out. It's position #54. |
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Feb-08-09 | | WhiteRook48: When I entered position #54 I got position #93 or something.
Fischerandom is sheer madness |
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Feb-14-09 | | vikinx: That's probably because you forgot to uncheck the <random> box. |
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Feb-25-09
 | | Viewer Deluxe: The whole chess960 world is still fairly new to me as is this forum. That’s why I started by reading several pages of comments before posting.
Sure, I came across the <castling rules> discussions and I found them quite interesting. I have three arguments that I couldn’t find in previous discussions so let me share my view. 1) In chess1 castling has a clear defensive purpose. “Move your king to safety” is a rule of thumb for beginners and GMs. Centuries of chess1 games serve as a good proof that c1/g1 are indeed a safe place for the king to reside (away from the center). On the other hand, the variety of initial setups in chess960 most definitely changes the “safe-status” of c1/g1 squares and makes them a questionable destination for the king (in many setups). It doesn’t make sense to have a fixed final KR-position of castling while almost every other characteristic of the board-position has changed. 2) In chess1 castling has never had an offensive purpose. Sure, castling-long can bring the rook to activity but the king always plays a passive role. On the other hand, in chess960 we can perform a long-and-dangerous castling that moves the king from b1 to g1 (five squares away). By itself alone that may not be automatically a bad idea. The problem is that castling is not an equal opportunity move and when White castles it quite often restricts Black from castling in the same direction. My point is that castling should be fairly available to both sides and making it a powerful/offensive move doesn’t help black. 3) Everybody seems to agree that the move-king-2-squares (MK2S) rule wouldn’t make sense in cases where the king is to get closer to the center. We conclude so by applying our current chess1 skills but that could be wrong. As <Gene M> points out, the role of the center in chess960 might not be the same as in chess1. If that’s the case, I can imagine central squares to be a safe place for the king. Even in chess1 that's quite possible so let’s not rule out an option based on intuition only. To conclude, I tend to agree with <YouRang>’s view that “<the castling rule> in chess960 is arbitrary and unnatural” and that MK2S rule would at least keep it fair and simple. |
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Mar-08-09 | | timhortons: Its hard to find opponent to play for fischer random be in fics or icc, it takes to much time of waiting for someone to accept youre challenge. |
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Mar-08-09 | | Valmy: <Timhortons> Try CAISSA.COM, I played a few games, even one against an IM (Jean HEBERT from Canada) |
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Mar-08-09 | | timhortons: <valmy>ill try it thanks, I know IM jean herbert, hes a regular in montreal tournament, not that i know him personally but i see him always during tourneys. |
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Mar-22-09 | | WhiteRook48: what is the Fischerandom position for the Chessgames Challenge? |
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Apr-30-09 | | zanshin: <WhiteRook48: what is the Fischerandom position for the Chessgames Challenge?> Using the chessgames FRC generator, it is 560. Using other generators (like in Aquarium), it is 216. I think Aquarium is 'standard' but CG seems to use a non-standard algorithm for generating starting positions - not sure why though. |
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