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Jan-19-23
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: So that's how you beat Carlsen--make the first pawn sacrifice before he does. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Refused: <OrangeTulip: Strange pun, not respectful, in my eyes>
<faustr: Is slavery an amusing subject?> Thanks. Can't agree more with those sentiments. That pun is horrible for those reasons. |
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Jan-19-23
 | | perfidious: I share others' distaste for the pun. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Mayankk: What was the point behind 4 ... Ba6 and 5 ... Bb7 ? That it misplaced the White Queen slightly by bringing it to c2 from d1 ? If anything I will argue it actually improved the Queen positioning. Possibly Black wanted to give White a 2 move advantage, similar to how Stockfish can offer any human and still destroy him. But Stockfish is rated 3500 and Carlsen a lowly 2850, so ... |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Refused: <Mayankk: What was the point behind 4 ... Ba6 and 5 ... Bb7 ? That it misplaced the White Queen slightly by bringing it to c2 from d1> Yes, that's the point of Ba6-b7.
QID is about control of the light squares. While the queen on c2 increases the control over e4, it gives up control over d5 (if white wants to push d5 now it is a pawn sacrifice, as in the game). |
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Jan-19-23
 | | MissScarlett: I’ve tried to make this pun work before as <12 Years A Slav> but it’s an old man’s opening. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Mayankk: Hi <Refused>,
I am no expert in QID, or any opening for that matter. But 7 d5 would have been a pawn sac even if Queen was on d1. For example 7 d5 exd5 8 cxd5 Nxd5/Bxd5 and one minor protects the other. Possibly I am missing some tactics but not obvious to me. I am generally not a fan of moving the same piece twice in openings. Sometimes it confuses the opponent due to move order switches but that is more at my amateurish levels. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Kristijanf: Pun is just joke I suppose and I believe Giri himself would laugh seeing this. But we live in snowflakes world... |
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Jan-19-23
 | | Troller: <I am generally not a fan of moving the same piece twice in openings. Sometimes it confuses the opponent due to move order switches but that is more at my amateurish levels.> It does look weird but it is a known line in top level chess for the last 15 years or so; e.g. Gelfand vs Aronian, 2006 Incidentally, another topical line in QID with 4.g3 has the <other> bishop move twice after 5.b3 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 like in
Aronian vs Karjakin, 2021 |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Refused: <Incidentally, another topical line in QID with 4.g3 has the <other> bishop move twice after 5.b3 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 like in Aronian vs Karjakin, 2021> Altho even in the lines with b3 personally I prefer to move the Bishop back to b7 before giving the check, so that I can play a5, if white play Bd2. (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6 5.b3 Bb7 6.Bg2 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 a5) Slightly older approach. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | Refused: <I am no expert in QID, or any opening for that matter. But 7 d5 would have been a pawn sac even if Queen was on d1. For example 7 d5 exd5 8 cxd5 Nxd5/Bxd5 and one minor protects the other. Possibly I am missing some tactics but not obvious to me.> With the Queen on d1 you can delay the capture on d5
7.d5 exd5 and play 8.Ng1/Nh4 first (too lazy to check which move is better). Now the d5 pawn is pinned. White will recapture on d5 next. White will at some point push e4 to further strengthen his grip on the centre and those positions are just horrible for black. Again the core idea for Black in the QID is to establish some sorta control over the light squares (very Nimzovich like). Fair to say this has not happened here. With the Queen on c2 those pin tricks do not work (skinned my fair share of fools trying to pull that off in online blitz). As black can now respond to the pin with Nc6! and now the pin is broken and if white plays cxd5 the Knight will jump to b4 forking the Queen and the pawn. And black keeps his extra pawn with a better position. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | SChesshevsky: <Mayankk: What is the point behind 4...Ba6 and 5...Bb7 ?...> Think the first is 4...Ba6 offers white 5. b3 then... Bb4+ and white Bd2 is pretty sedate. But 5. Qc2 is the known challenge with ...c5 fully accepting the sharp lines. After 5. Qc2, black kind of have to do something to challenge the potential monster B on g2. The compensation for the tempo loss appears the pawn up if white pushes d5. Don't know the latest theory on all this but probably computer says black objectively OK. But practically looks very difficult for black. Seems a move behind with often hanging Bb7 and compromised center. Result that he often seems scrambling to hold it together. Really noticed potential problems for black at 2008 Tal Memorial. Where Karpov had two tough losses and even Carlsen lost to Ivanchuk in similar QID Qc2...c5 type play. Haven't followed it since but guessing must've been some improvements since then. But doesn't seem apparent here. |
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| Jan-19-23 | | fisayo123: Amazing pun really |
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| Jan-19-23 | | EphemeralAdvantage: Positional sacrifices of the d pawn seem to be all the rage against the QID nowadays. At has been so since the AlphaZero's emergence in 2017. The Polugaevsky Gambit lead to one of the most impressive wins in the match against Stockfish (1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. d5 exd5 8. Nh4 c6 9. cxd5 Nxd5 10. Nf5 is the Gambit) The whole variation with 12. ... d6 for Black seems to be suspect. The choice to play like this is somewhat bizarre since Carlsen played against this variation and won in Carlsen vs Pelletier, 2008. Is anyone an expert on the ... Ba6 QID? If so, can you explain to me why would Carlsen chose 12. ... d6 instead of the well analyzed mainline with 12. ... g6? |
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Jan-19-23
 | | Check It Out: Nice to see Giri playing with some verve. I hope he finally gets a Tata win. 5 times runner up in his own backyard tournament has got to burn. However, Nodirbek is on a rampage. In trying to understand the pun, I see its a 2013 film title about a guy who was kidnapped in 1841 and forced to work on a plantation in the South for 12 years. That is being compared to Giri not winning a classical game against Carlsen for 12 years, the last one back Tata 2011. Did I get that right? |
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| Jan-19-23 | | lechacal: <Check It Out : In trying to understand the pun, I see its a 2013 film title about a guy who was kidnapped in 1841 and forced to work on a plantation in the South for 12 years. That is being compared to Giri not winning a classical game against Carlsen for 12 years, the last one back Tata 2011. Did I get that right?> Yes |
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Jan-19-23
 | | OhioChessFan: The usual snowflake suspects are out in force. They really, really, really don't understand how feminized they are. |
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Jan-19-23
 | | FSR: I agree with OrangeTulip, refused, perfidious, etc. |
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Jan-19-23
| | Check It Out: There are two camps here: One really likes the pun, the other dislikes the pun. I'm in a third camp: it's just another mediocre pun. Big deal. CG has to come up with 365 of them a year, they can't all be winners. You like the pun, you don't like the pun, fine. As of <OCF>'s comment about snowflakes and feminized posters <The usual snowflake suspects are out in force. They really, really, really don't understand how feminized they are.>, isn't that being overly sensitive to varying points of view, and therefore "snowflakey" and "feminized", to use a couple of tired adjectives? |
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Jan-19-23
| | perfidious: <ohiyuk> is merely picking up the mantle for the fallen 'justice warrior', <spawn of satan>. |
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Jan-19-23
 | | HeMateMe: I'm thinking Girl might not like our pun efforts! hehehehehehehehehe |
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| Jan-19-23 | | generror: Some people really, really, really, REALLY don't understand how masculinized they are. (I hope I, like Neil Breen put in enough really's to get my point across!) I'm happy I have gotten rid of toxic masculinization (and many other conditioned patterns) in seven hard years of therapy and now I'm just <myself>, keeping well away from people showing the slightest sign of @#$%*&!# machoism. Yes, unfortunately that means I haven't got many friends, but it's the only way to keep my mental hygiene, and I value that above everything else. Hell, I'm even painting my fingernails if I want to, just because I like it. I just don't care about this male/female @#$%*&!# and I'm so glad I don't. And Ed Wood's my hero -- making <Glen or Glenda>, a film about the right to cross-dress, in darkest McCarthy era, means having balls of space titanium, but of course idiots only see the Angora. |
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| Jan-20-23 | | Mayankk: Thanks <Refused> and <SChesshevsky>. |
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| Jan-20-23 | | Mayankk: Hi <Refused>
With the Queen on d1, 7 d5 exd5 8 Ng1/Nh4 looks awfully passive for White. It is down a pawn and has just one well developed piece - the g7 Bishop. I especially dislike the two White Knights - now it is White who seems to offer Black a two move advantage. Also Black can continue with 8 ... c6 to reinforce the d5 pawn and i don't see an easy way for White to recapture this pawn immediately. |
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| Jan-20-23 | | Refused: I think we are talking about different positions here, you already pushed c5 to provoke the d5 push, no?
If so you can't play c6 to reinforce d5. |
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