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Later Kibitzing> |
Nov-03-22
 | | PawnSac: Was lookin at the Bogo game n came back to the front page and it was the new game. Double delight |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Brenin: My choice was 24 Bxf7+, e.g. 24 ... Kxf7 25 Rf1 followed by 26 e5, or 24 ... Ke7 25 e5 dxe5 26 Qh7. Nothing conclusive, but Black's position looks too draughty for him to survive much longer. |
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Nov-03-22
| | PawnSac: "too draughty"? Is that a Britt spelling for drafty? |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Mayankk: Black is threatening Qxa2 followed by Qxb2+. White needs to pre-empt this by its own King-side attack aided by the fact that Black has lined up his pieces for attack, and its King seems alone and vulnerable. I had two candidate first moves. 24 e5 to open up the d file for my Rook and 24 Bxf7 to open up the King for checks from Queen and get my Knight and Rook to join later. I wasn't sure about 24 e5 as it seemed slower and needed a Knight exchange as well after 24 ... Bxe5 25 Nxe5 dxe5. The Knight seemed too useful to let go so early. So I stuck with trying to make 24 Bxf7+ work. One such line could be 24 ... Kxf7 25 Qh7+ Kf8 26 e5 dxe5 27 Nxe5 Bxe5 28 Rd8+. Or 24 ... Kxf7 25 Qh7+ Bg7 26 Ng5+ Kf8 27 Rf1+ Ke8 28 Qxg7. But too many side-lines to consider and it is quite plausible that Black may be able to swiggle out in one of those. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Brenin: <PawnSac>: A draught is a current of air, a draft is a selection (literally a drawing off). Maybe drafty is a US variation of draughty. |
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Nov-03-22
 | | perfidious: <Brenin>, 'drafty' is the variant used Over Here. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | EasilyConfused: Why did Black resign? Doesn�t 27..Qe8 escape the attack? |
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| Nov-03-22 | | jrredfield: I also went with 24 Bxf7. I figured with all the Black threats brewing that White needed to attack the Black K straightway. It actually according to engine analysis is a very strong move (nearly +12 according to Komodo Dragon), but the text move scores around +15. I have to confess I didn't really consider e5 other than a cursory look. |
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Nov-03-22
| | perfidious: <EasilyConfused: Why did Black resign? Doesn't 27..Qe8 escape the attack?> No; 28.Qh7+ Kf8 29.Rf1 leaves him defenceless. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | boringplayer: Got a Thursday right for a change! |
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Nov-03-22
 | | al wazir: I think 24. e5 dxe5 25. Bxf7+ Kxf7 26. Qh7+ does equally well, e.g., 26...Bg7 27. Nxe5+ Kf6 28. Qg6+ Kxe5 29. Qxg7+ Ke4 30. Rd4+ Ke3 31. Qe5+ f2 32. Rd2+ Kg1 33. g3, and mate next, or 26...Kf8 27. Nxe5 Bxe5 28. Rd8+ Qe8 29. Qh6+ Ke7 30. Qg5+ Bf6 31. Rxe8+ Kxe8 32. Qxf6, with ♕+♙+♙ vs. ♖+♗. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Refused: Najdorf structure on the board, white to play and win. Black is sorta threatening Qxa2, but really just sorta. White is in no danger to get immediately mated there. Thus we have some time Candidates: Qh7, e5 and Bxf7+
24.Qh7...
a) 24...Kd8 25.Qxf7 looks just sad.
b) 24...hxg6 25.e5 and black's position just collapses.
b1) 25...dxe5 26.Qxg6+ Ke7 27.Ng5+ Bxg5+ 28.Qxg5+ Kf8 (Ke8 29.Qg8+ Ke7 30.Qg7+ Ke8 31.Rf1) 29.Rf1+ Ke8 30.Qg8+ Kd7 31.Rf7+ Kd6 (Kc6 32.Qe8+ 33.Qxa4 is a theme) 32.Qd8+ should be curtains.
b2) 25...Bxe5 26.Nxe5 looks dead as 26...dxe5 runs again into 27.Qg8+ Ke7 28.Qg7 Ke8 29.Rf1 I fail to see any other candidates for black here. as
c) 25...Qxa2 is just not a serious threat. 26.Qxg6+ Kd8 27.Qxf6+ and black's king gets mated way quicker than the white one. I am satisfied with 24.Qh7 and way too lazy to check the other lines. 24.e5 should be very, very similar thematically and thus transpose into the 24.Qh7 lines anyway. 24.Bxf7!? may or may not work, but like I said, 24.Qh7 works, so why bother. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | mel gibson: I chose a different move: 24. Bxf7+
which Stockfish 15 says is better ( when I force it to play that move.)Stockfish 15 says:
24. e5
(24. e5 (e4-e5 d6-d5 e5xf6 ♔e8-d8 ♕h6-f8+ ♔d8-c7 ♕f8xf7+ ♔c7-b6 ♕f7-e7 b4-b3 a2xb3 ♕a4-f4+
♔c1-b1 ♕f4-c7 ♕e7-g7 ♕c7-d6 f6-f7 ♗c8-b7 ♕g7-d4+ ♕d6-c5 h2-h4 ♗b7-c6 ♕d4-e5
♖b8-d8 ♕e5-f6 ♕c5-f8 ♘f3-e5 ♔b6-c7 h4-h5 ♗c6-d7 ♕f6-f4 ♕f8-d6 h5-h6 ♖d8-h8
♕f4-f6 ♕d6-f8 h6-h7 ♕f8-d8 ♕f6-f4 ♗d7-b5 ♖d1-h1 ♕d8-d6 g2-g4 d5-d4 g4-g5
d4-d3 ♗g6xd3) +16.28/34 660)
score for White +16.28 depth 34.
When I force Stockfish 15 to play my move:
24. Bxf7+
(24. Bxf7+ Kd8 (♔e8-d8 ♕h6xf6+ ♔d8-c7 e4-e5 b4-b3 e5xd6+ ♔c7-b7 a2xb3 ♕a4-a1+ ♔c1-d2
♕a1-a5+ ♔d2-e2 ♕a5-b5+ ♖d1-d3 ♗c8-d7 ♗f7-g6 ♕b5-c6 c2-c4 ♔b7-b6 ♔e2-f1
a6-a5 ♘f3-e5 ♕c6-c8 ♕f6-e7 ♖b8-b7 ♗g6-e4 ♖b7-a7 h2-h4 ♕c8-e8 ♕e7xe8 ♗d7xe8
d6-d7 ♗e8xd7 ♘e5xd7+ ♔b6-c7 ♘d7-e5 ♔c7-b6 h4-h5 a5-a4 b3-b4 ♖a7-g7 ♗e4-g6
♖g7-g8 h5-h6 ♖g8xg6 ♘e5xg6 ♔b6-c7) -17.75/35 779) score for Black -17.75 depth 35. |
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Nov-03-22
 | | scormus: I wondered about 24 e5, but thought Bxf7+ followed by 25 e5 was more forcing. If B declines the Bf7, then 25 Qxf6. After that I struggled to pick the text moves. I had 27 Qh7+ instead of Ng5. I'll forgive myself as my SF14 needed a while to decide which are the "best" moves |
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| Nov-03-22 | | saturn2: The black threats on the queenside are too far away and his pieces dont cooperate well. I was indecided between Rxd6 and Bxf7. For the later I calculated some lines after Kxf7 Qh7 and was confident it works. So it was my final choice. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | goodevans: <saturn2 ... I was indecided between Rxd6 and Bxf7.> For me the choice was between Rxd6 and Qf4. I think all these moves mentioned in everyone's posts are winning. Yet another puzzle with a billionty solutions (sigh). :o( |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Brenin: <goodeveans>:Yes, even the ultra-cautious 24 Kb1 seems to win, e.g. 24 ... fxg6 25 Qxg6+ Ke7 26 e5 dxe5 27 Ng5 Bxg5 28 Qxg5+ Kf7 29 Rf1+ Ke8 30 Qg7, and the threat of Rf8 mate forces 30 ... Kd8 31 Rf8+ Qe8 32 Rxe8+ Kxe8 33 Qc7, winning the R or B. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | gofer: Like <Easily Confused>, I was wondering if there was any sort of defense at the end... I was thinking about <27 ... Bd7 28 Qf7+ Kd8 29 Nxe6+ Kc8> (and then 30 Qf8+ Kb7 31 Nc5+ Ka8 32 Qxf6 Qc6 33 Nxd7 Qxf6 34 Nxf6 +8.8, but Stockfish discards this garbage in favour of) <30 Qxf6 Bxe6 31 Qxe6+ Kb7 32 Rd7+ Qxd7 33 Qxd7+ +62.4> So the resignation was only fractionally early... |
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| Nov-03-22 | | paavoh: I am with the 24.Bxf7+ crowd, finding similar lines as <Mayankk> and <Brenin> did. So many choices... |
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| Nov-03-22 | | TheaN: Oops, I rushed this one a bit too fast. Was certain <24.Bxf7+> would work and it does (it may actually be stronger than e5 due to the forcing nature) but after <24....Kxf7> anything else just keeps that very useful bishop otb. <25.e5! +-> is still needed. I played 25.Ng5+? here, kind of missing 25....Bxg5+ is check so White can't play Rf1+ straight away, and after 26.Qxg5 Qb5! = Black (albeit barely) holds because he's covering f1 and threatening a queen trade. White can still attempt to play for a win with 27.Qf4+ Ke8 28.Rxd6, but the bishop investment wasn't necessarily worth it here. |
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Nov-03-22
 | | chrisowen: Ebb limp flacks view its word quandary Bxf7+ aflinch photon flicks abattoir afford pad arrive its see hit fad e5 :( |
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| Nov-03-22 | | TheaN: Actually the position after 24.Bxf7+ Kxf7 25.Ng5+? Bxg5 26.Qxg5 Qb5 27.Qf4+ Ke8 would be interesting to play over the board:
click for larger view
An ambitious White player would consider 28.Rf1?! but now 28....Kd7! -+ gives Black a clear advantage. Indeed, taking Pd6 right away is White's main idea, and 28.Rxd6 Qc5 requires some accuracy from both sides. 29.Qg3?! preventing 29....Qg1+? 30.Rd1 +- due to the discover on Rb8, Black has a narrow escape with 29....Bd7! 30.Qg8+ Ke7 31.Rxd7+!? Kxd7 32.Qxb8 Qg1+ = with perpetual. 29.Rxe6+!? is probably White's best try, given 29....Bxe6 30.Qxb8+ comes with check and wins Pa6 too, with the option of the queen coming back to defense, so White can play this without risk: 30....Ke7 31.Qb7+ Kf6 32.Qxa6 Qe3+ 33.Kd1! (the pin prevents Bg4+ with mate soon) Qg1+ 34.Kd2 Qxh2 35.Qe2 =:
click for larger view
It's only White playing for a win here, but it holds relatively easy. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | Brenin: <TheaN>: [After 24 Bxf7+ Kxf7 25 Ng5+ Bxg5+ 26 Qxg5 Qb5 27 Qf4+ Ke8 28 Rxd6 Qc5] <29.Qg3?! preventing 29....Qg1+? 30.Rd1 +- due to the discover on Rb8 ...> Black can rescue the R on b8 with 30 ... Qa7, but then 31 Qg8+ Ke7 32 Qg7+ skewers Black's Q. An interesting line, but almost certainly drawn with best play on both sides. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | jes47: or 26. Qg8+ Ke7 27. Rd8 and the Qf8# can be delayed with spite checks, but it's coming. |
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| Nov-03-22 | | agb2002: White has a bishop, a knight and a pawn for the bishop pair. Black threatens fxg6 and Qxa2. Bxb2+ might be a possibility. The rook x-rays d7 and d8. This and Bxb2+ suggest 24.e5: A) 24... fxg6 25.Qxg6+ is winning. For example, 25... Kd7 26.Qf7+ Be7 (26... Kc6 27.Qe8+ wins the queen) 27.Rxd6+ Kc7 28.Qxe7+ Bd7 29.Rxe6 wins decisive material (29... Qxa2 30.Rc6+ Kxc6 31.Qxa2). B) 24... dxe5 25.Bxf7+ looks winning. For example, 25... Kxf7 26.Qh7+ Kf8 (26... Bg7 27.Ng5+ Kf6 28.Rf1+ Kxg5 29.Qxg7+ Kh5 30.Rf6) 27.Nxe5 Bxe5 (27... Rb7 28.Ng6+ Ke8 29.Qg8#) 28.Rd8+ Qe8 29.Rxe8+ Kxe8 30.Qh5+ and 31.Qxe5 wins decisive material. C) 24... Bxe5 25.Nxe5 fxg6 (25... dxe5 26.Qh8+ Ke7 27.Qd8#) 26.Rxd6 Ke7 27.Rd3 wins (27... Qe8 28.Qg7+). D) 24... d5 25.exf6 fxg6 26.Rxd6 wins (26... Rb7 27.Qh8+ Kf7 28.Qg7+ Ke8 29.Qg8#). E) 24... Be7 25.exd6 must be winning. For example, 25... fxg6 26.dxe7 Kxe7 27.Qg7+ Ke8 28.Qg8+ Ke7 29.Qd8+ Kf7 30.Ne5+ Kg7 31.Qe7+ Kh6 32.Qf7 and mate soon. Or 25... Bf8 26.Bxf7+ Kxf7 27.Rf1+ Ke8 28.Qxf8+ Kd7 29.Qe7+ Kc6 30.Qe8+ and 31.Qxa4. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 25.Qh7