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Oct-17-21
 | | master8ch: Another of your kookie White-to-move-and-Black-to-win puzzles. Hmm; let's see now, what's the best losing move? |
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Oct-17-21
| | sackman: A puzzle indeed. I guessed the same first moves as <drollere> but then got stuck i see why now. SF recommends 19 Kb1 (!!!) with a tiny edge to white bet no-one picked that... |
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| Oct-17-21 | | hdcc: Since it's white to move and black to win, I went for the most obvious solution - I chose to resign. I assume that this would be considered correct? |
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| Oct-17-21 | | hdcc: P.S. Perhaps puzzles such as this should in fact be rated "Inane" :-) |
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Oct-17-21
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Stumped me--thought that 21.h6 would win. Oh, well, 5/6 with 1 already known. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | Refused: Went witht he obvious 19.Bxh7+ Kxh7 20.g6+ Kg8 but then couldn't find a way to get an edge. In the game I don't understand white 21.Rdg1 that looks way too slow.
21.hxg6+ has to be the way to go. After that I am confident, that black's position will eventually collapse e.g. after the forced 21...Kxg6 22.Rdg1+ (with a check that move is much more forcing) Kf7 23.Qf4+
white looks to be crashing through the gates.
a) 23...Nf6 24.Qg5 simply doesn't look survivable b) 23...Bf6 24.Rxg7+!! is just curtains |
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| Oct-17-21 | | mel gibson: So Black wins?
I saw that move straight away.
Stockfish 14 didn't choose it.
19. Kb2
(19. Kb2(♔c1-b2 ♗e7-c5 ♗d4xc5 ♖c8xc5 g5-g6 f7xg6 h5xg6 h7-h6 ♘c3-e2 ♕b4xd2 ♖d1xd2
♘e8-d6 ♖h1-e1 ♘d6-c4+ ♗d3xc4 ♖c5xc4 ♘e2-d4 ♖b8-b6 ♖e1-e3 ♖c4-c8 ♖d2-e2
♖c8-f8 ♘d4xe6 ♖f8-f6 ♘e6-c5 ♗d7-f5 ♖e3-e8+ ♖f6-f8 ♖e2-e5 ♖b6-f6 ♖e8xf8+
♖f6xf8 ♘c5-e6 ♖f8-f6 ♘e6-f4 ♗f5xg6 ♘f4xg6 ♖f6xg6 ♖e5xd5 ♖g6-f6 c2-c4)
+1.77/34 263)
score for White +1.77 depth 34
However -
when I force Stockfish 14 to play 19 Bxh7+.
19 Bxh7+
19. .. Kxh7 (19. .. Kxh7 (♔g8xh7 g5-g6+ ♔h7-g8 h5-h6 ♗e7-f6
h6xg7 ♗f6xd4 ♕d2-f4 f7xg6 ♖d1xd4 ♕b4-a3+ ♔c1-b1 ♘e8xg7 ♕f4-f6 g6-g5 ♖d4-g4
♕a3-f8 ♕f6xg5 ♖c8xc3 ♖h1-g1 ♖c3xf3 ♕g5xg7+ ♕f8xg7 ♖g4xg7+ ♔g8-h8 ♖g7xd7
♖b8-b6 ♖g1-g7 ♖f3-c3 ♖g7-h7+ ♔h8-g8 ♖d7-g7+ ♔g8-f8 ♖g7-a7 ♔f8-g8 ♖h7-g7+
♔g8-h8 ♖g7-e7 ♖c3-c8 c2-c3 ♖b6-c6 ♔b1-b2 ♖c6xc3 ♖e7xe6 ♖c3-c2+ ♔b2-a3 d5-d4
♖a7-d7 ♖c2-d2 ♖e6xa6 ♔h8-g8 ♔a3-b4 ♖c8-b8+ ♔b4-c4 ♔g8-f8 b3-b4 ♖b8-c8+
♔c4-b5 ♖c8-b8+ ♖a6-b6 ♔f8-e8 ♖d7-d5 ♖b8xb6+ ♔b5xb6 ♔e8-f7 ♔b6-c5 ♔f7-e6
♖d5xd4 ♖d2xa2 b4-b5 ♖a2-c2+ ♔c5-b6 ♔e6-e5 ♖d4-d1 ♔e5-e6 ♔b6-b7 ♖c2-b2
b5-b6) -2.78/39 313)
score for Black -2.78 depth 39.
And then when I placed Stockfish on 2 seconds
auto play per move White won. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | nalinw: If you force the engine to play 19 Bxh7+ and the follow up moves it eventually find the correct solutions. <Refused> is correct - in the game White's error was not playing 21 hxg6+ .... If 20 .... Kg8 then 21 h6 seems to win |
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| Oct-17-21 | | saturn2: 19 h6 g6 and the files stay closed.
But after 19. g6 f(h)xg6 black has blocked its own pawn on g7 from advancing and by 20 h6 white opens the h file. So my move was 19.g6 |
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| Oct-17-21 | | agb2002: Black threatens a5-a4.
The first idea that comes to mind, 19.g6, to open the g- or h-file, is met with 19... Qxd4. An option is 19.Bxh7+ Kxh7 20.g6+ but after 20... Kg8 21.h6 (21.gxf7+ Kxf7 22.h6 Bf6 23.h7 Bxd4 24.h8=Q Bxc3 looks winning for Black) 21... fxg6 22.hxg7 Nxg7 (due to Rh8+) 23.Rh8+ Kf7 (23... Kxh8 24.Qh6+ Kg8 25.Qxg7#) 24.Rh7 Rg8 25.Qf4+ Ke8 26.Qe5 Nf5 Black seems to hold. The alternative 19.h6 goes nowhere after 19... g6. The maneuver 19.Rdg1-g4 is met with 19... Bc5 (20.Rg4? Bxd4 21.Rxd4 Qxc3). I don't know. I'd probably play 19.f4 to protect the g-pawn in view of a possible queen trade. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | AlicesKnight: It looked like a classic 2-bishop sacrifice with the Ps charging and heavy pieces following up. Interesting that it is inconclusive. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | stacase: Instead of 26.Rh7+ I would have moved 26.Nxd5+ forking black's King & Queen and forcing 26...exd5 then 27. Re1+ But 26. Nxd5+ exd5 27. Re1+ Kd8 28. Rxe8+ Bxe8 29. Qxf6+ Qe7 and White has run out of gas and is done. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | goodevans: Count me in with everyone else who couldn't get past 20...Kg8. <nalinw: If you force the engine to play 19 Bxh7+ and the follow up moves it eventually find the correct solutions. [...] If 20 .... Kg8 then 21 h6 seems to win> Could you please let us know what the what the win is if Black responds 21...Bf6. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | Stanco: I solved it but in a different line, the game line doesn't work because of 25...gxf6? black should have played 25...Nxf6... I went for this line:
19.Bxh7+ Kxh7 20.g6+ fxg6 21.hg6+!! Kg8 22.Rh8+ Kxh8 23.Qh2+ Kg8 24.Qh7+ Kf8 25.Qh8#
The line 21...Kxg6 is a great exercise, there is plenty of tactics in it after 22. Rdg1+ Kf7 23. Qf4+ Nf6 (23...Bf6? 24.Rxg7+!) 24.Qg5! and black can't save the game in any variation... |
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| Oct-17-21 | | saturn2: <agb2002 The first idea that comes to mind, 19.g6, to open the g- or h-file, is met with 19... Qxd4.> White has then 20.gxf7+ Kxf7 21. Bg6+ |
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| Oct-17-21 | | goodevans: <saturn2: <agb2002 The first idea that comes to mind, 19.g6, to open the g- or h-file, is met with 19... Qxd4.> White has then 20.gxf7+ Kxf7 21. Bg6+> Except that Black is not obliged to recapture the pawn 20...Kxf7. If he just moves his K then White can win Black's N, temporarily restoring material equality, but White's own N is pinned (to preventing ...Qa1#) and cannot be saved. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | goodevans: Oops!
Of course White can save the N with Nb1 but Black plays Qa1 anyway (threatening Ba3#) and White will struggle to fend off a ferocious attack. |
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Oct-17-21
 | | chrisowen: Cask ooh i eunichs Bxh7+ hand ago it is quote i ooh blubb as vehicle cask ooh i eunichs gas grub tvs v i jim mid dim do i ooh mow its woe queens v i ooh plusher javas gaff guff harangues egg huh it shagpile abacus i ooh black double its finish eg amalgamate aquakong devour a bluff frazzled its creeds i ooh reserve gank fide v cutted its badman in no fox hoofed it for lecture biff vis basically relish judo kind o hog band i ooh dices and it ex i ooh us ai doth bus hang it shangri-la it sh efface i ooh black as dj cane its lamb c v it fags it shape it grinds tone ace it line delicate i ooh mob v death it fave i mild green hairy lipsquid Bxh7+ beverly eh; |
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Oct-17-21
 | | scormus: What puzzles me most is W playing 21 Rdg1 instead of hxg6+
Rdg1 looks just plain wrong.
Did W previously plan on 21 hxg6+ Kg8 22 Qa2, then rejected it after noticing ... Bg5+ 23 Kb1 Bh6, but missing 22 Rh8+ etc (<Brenin, well spotted>)? Of course, B was not forced to play 20 ... fxg6? which should have lost directly. I suppose that's why this is Sunday POTD and midweek. |
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Oct-17-21
| | scormus: I mean ..... and <not> midweek! |
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| Oct-17-21 | | raymondhow: So after the first two moves, like others I played 21.hxg6+. The engine says that's much better than the game line, apparently a win rather than a loss. If that means I solved the puzzle, then it's rather easy for a Sunday. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | goodevans: <raymondhow> I'm not sure anyone's solved it today because I've not seen anyone post a winning analysis of 19.Bxh7+ Kxh7 20.g6+ Kg8. Maybe it's just a bad puzzle without a proper solution. But it's an interesting position to ponder over even if it doesn't quite hold together as a puzzle. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | Stanco: <goodevans> You're quite correct.
I had in mind Kg8 line and thought it has to be solves by itself with h6 but turned out it is not all that clear. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | drollere: <19. .. Kxh7 (19. .. Kxh7 (?g8xh7 g5-g6+ ?h7-g8 h5-h6> ich habe gerne patzerfreude! i see stockfish chose my continuation. |
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| Oct-17-21 | | raymondhow: <goodevans> Understood, thanks.. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 27...Rxc2+