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| Oct-10-12 | | achieve: This looks better. From the prev post I avoided the rook trade at move 50 and instead re-organized towards the type position I was studying yesterday: 50. Kc4 Ra6 51. Rc5 Bd8 52. Bd2 Bg5 53. f4 Bd8 54. Rd5 Ra8
55. f5+ Kg7
click for larger viewThis looks like a veritable feast for endgame buffs, but I have to leave it here for now. |
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| Oct-10-12 | | achieve: <tamar> Thanks! I was so into it I didn't realize I had entered Tablebase territory. Doh... But there are several approaches "available", it appears. G'♘ for now. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: <achieve>
After <36...Bc7 37. c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5+ Rc6 39. f3>: 
click for larger viewInstead of <39...Bb8 40. c5!> which wins, why not <39...Rd6+ 40. Rd5 Rg6> with a blockade: 
click for larger viewFor example, if now <41.c5 bxc5 42.Bxc5 Re6>: 
click for larger viewTo mount an attack with the DSB on a5, it has to leave the a3-f8 diagonal allowing the Black king into the middle and the queen side, eg: <43. Bd4+ Kf8 44.Bc3 Ra6> and White can't get through as the King is excluded from all the vital squares. 
click for larger viewI must say I'm enjoying this mystery novel of a game. We're still debating what the losing move was. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | achieve: <twinlark> You put up a much better defense than my engine does, which is as it should be, as when I am sitting behind my board I can look really creatively at the attacking side, and neglect the defending Black side in this case, and it's a psychological thing. I literally have to "turn the board" or the compscreen GUI equivalent. Your improvements are worth a thorough look, and let's see if I can break through your blockade. Back later for that. I did have a look at the third diagram, and I'd probably prefer to move the Bishop to the c1-h6 diagonal, ie. <e3> and later <d2>, but it has to be timed to perfection, prepared, otherwise you counter indeed every initiative I take. White can in most cases afford to "take some time" to just maneuver and exploit the space advantage and centralized King, preparing to attack the weaknesses with patience. Ok, back later. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | achieve: continued, rather, I'd recapture on <c5> on move 42 following your line with the rook, leading to a very sharp forced line, favoring White, IMO, after Rxc5 Bb6(!?):
click for larger view42. Rxc5 Bb6 43. Bd4+ Kf8 44. Rc8+ Ke7
45. Bxb6 Rxb6 46. Rc7+ Ke6 47. Rc5 Rd6+ 48. Kc4 Ra6 49. Kb5 
click for larger viewRook backs up, and Rc6+ follows, probably, and winnig I think. Of course black can play the B to <d8> instead of the agressive b6 variation, which I have to look at further, but there the point is that I already have the B on e3, ideally placed, as opposed to after 42.Bxc5. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | achieve: Yep - 42. Rxc5 Bb6?! loses in the line I gave, so 42...Bd8 is forced.
click for larger viewNow: 43 Rd5 Bc7 44 Bd2! Ra6 45 Kc4 Kg6
click for larger viewAnd Rd7 looks good,- precise play will see the a-pawn drop soon, and basically that ending ought to be winning, after 46 Rd7 Bg3 47 Kb5 Rf6(?) 48 Rd3, from this position: 
click for larger viewThe alternative 47...Re6 will be met with 48 Rd5 - and Black can't do a thing to prevent the fall of the a-pawn. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: <achieve>
In your line, we get to:
<42. Rxc5 Bb6 43. Bd4+ Kf8 44. Rc8+ Ke7
45. Bxb6 Rxb6 46. Rc7+>
click for larger viewwith which I have no difference. However, <46...Ke6> looks like a loser as <46...Kf6> enables a later <...f5> with the King being on the king side of the pawn and nearer to the protection of the h-pawn: <46...Kf6 47.Rc5 Rb4 48. Rxa5 Kg6>: 
click for larger viewfollowed soon by <...f5> and it's drawn. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | Eyal: <after Rxc5 Bb6(!?):
42. Rxc5 Bb6 43. Bd4+ Kf8 44. Rc8+ Ke7 45. Bxb6 Rxb6 46. Rc7+ Ke6 47. Rc5 Rd6+ 48. Kc4 Ra6 49. Kb5 [etc.]> Is the rook endgame still winning for White after 46...Kf6 47.Rc5 Rb3+ 48.Ke2 Ra3 49.Rxa5 Kg6? 
click for larger viewAt any rate, instead of simply recapturing immediately on c5, there’s also the possibility of <42.Bd2>: 
click for larger viewaiming for Kc4-b5 (or Rxc5 & Kd5, depending on how Black defends). |
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| Oct-11-12 | | achieve: <Eyal> <42. Bd2> - very cool and logical move, and certainly in concordance with a well timed and measured positional approach and procedure. And thanks to you and <twinlark> for suggesting the <...Kh6> improvement, that's what combined analysis is all about; explore and test every resource. My CG morning time has come to a halt for now, but this afternoon the comp will be back on here, as the Bilbao games are on the menu. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | achieve: Oops - of course I meant the "thanks for the <46...Kf6> improvement." Time for some fresh air. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: So far my drawing variation for Black stands intact. Another move to throw into the mix is <36...Rc6>, which looks to be a very promising way for Black to hold. After <36...Rc6>:
click for larger viewIf <37.c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5 Rg6>: 
click for larger viewlooks solid for Black, eg: <39.Rd5 Be7 40.Rb5 Bd8 41.f3 Rc6>: 
click for larger viewAnd White doesn't seem to have any ingress into Black's position. I wouldn't declare this variation a draw, but it looks tough to crack. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | kappertjes: Twinlark gave:
<36...Bc7 37. c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5+ Rc6 39. f3>I do not really like his given response of 37. c4, it blocks white's entry to the QS, gives the white king a pawn to guard and deprives the white bishop of a possible support. So an alternative example line here to show what I mean, I do not have a good engine, so nothing definitive: <36...Bc7 37. f4
click for larger viewand a possible follow-up:
gxh5 38. Rxg5 Rg6 39. Bd4+ Kf8 40. f5 Rxg4 41 Rxh6
click for larger viewThis all followed quite naturally.
41. ...Ke7 42. Kc4 Rf4 43. f6+ Ke6 44.Rh5 Bd8 45. Kb5 
click for larger viewOf course black now has an active rook and king and could likely draw here. It goes to show that white has some other directions to go to should black not hinder the king penetrating the QS. This is all a bit tentative and might not be of any use but it came going through all the analysis here so I thought I might as well post it. I enjoyed reading it so thanks eyal /ceebo/ twinlark/ achieve/tamar et al (and all kibitzers all over the world, hyper hyper). |
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| Oct-11-12 | | Eyal: <twinlark: So far my drawing variation for Black stands intact.> Playing this out a bit with help of Houdini, it seems to me that it’s very tough for Black to defend against [36.h5 Bc7 37.c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5 Rc6 39.f3 Rd6+ 40.Rd5 Rg6 41.c5 bxc5] <42.Bd2>, which I mentioned earlier – e.g. 42...Ra6 43.Kc4 and now 43...Kg6 44.Kxc5 to be followed by Rd7 (44...Rf6 45.Rd3! [45.Rd7 Bf4! 46.Bxa5 Be3+ & Rxf3] 45...Re6 46.Rd7); or 43...Kf8 (so that 44.Kxc5 can be met by 44...Ke8/Ke7) 44.Rxc5 Bd8 45.Rh5 and the h6 pawn is under attack. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | Eyal: <twinlark: 36...Rc6 37.c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5 Rg6 39.Rd5 Be7 40.Rb5 Bd8 41.f3 Rc6
And White doesn't seem to have any ingress into Black's position. I wouldn't declare this variation a draw, but it looks tough to crack.> Here's an example of how White might break through: 42.f4 Rg6 43.Rd5 Be7 44.Bd4+ Kg8 45.Rd7 Kf8 46.f5 Rc6 (46...Rxg4 47.f6 Rxd4+ 48.Rxd4 Bxf6 49.Rd6 and Black loses since he can’t defend the b6 pawn) 47.Be5 Rc5 (47...Rc8 48.Rb7 Bc5 49.Rb8 and Black should be losing the bishop endgame because he can’t defend both h6 and the Q-side) 48.Bd6 Bxd6 49.Rxd6 and I think White should be winning this rook endgame; or 44...Kf8 45.f5 Rc6 46.Rb5 Bd8 and here I think the 47.c5 break should be winning. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: <Eyal>
<it’s very tough for Black to defend against [36.h5 Bc7 37.c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5 Rc6 39.f3 Rd6+ 40.Rd5 Rg6 41.c5 bxc5] <42.Bd2>> What about <42...Kf8> immediately? If then <43.Kc4>, then <43...Ke7 44.Rxc5 Kd7> 
click for larger viewseems to batten down the hatches for Black because if <45.Rh5> then the counter-attack on the f3 pawn with <45...Rf6> looks like equalising. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | Eyal: <twinlark> In your diagram position, I think White simply takes on a5 - he should be winning this rook endgame after an exchange of bishops (and then ...Rf6 can be met by Rf5). |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: <Eyal>
Thanks, that's true. That variation is looking decidedly shaky. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | ceebo: After 36...Bc7 37.c4 gxh5 38.Rxh5 Rc6 39.f3 Rd6+ 40.Rd5 Rg6 41.c5 bxc5 <42.Bd2> Ra6 43.Kc4 Kg6 44.Kxc5 Rf6 45.Rd3 Re6 46.Rd7 what about 46...Bg3? e.g. 46...Bg3 47.Bxa5 Re3 48.Bb6 (48.Bd8 Rxf3 49.a5 f5 seems drawn) Rxf3 49.a5 Be1! (threatening Bxa5 with a draw) 50.Rd6+ Kg5 51.a6 Bf2+ and after 52...Bxb6 it seems to be drawn. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | Eyal: <ceebo> Yeah, nice find - I think you're right. |
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| Oct-11-12 | | twinlark: The cavalry to the rescue. I second that - nice find. |
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Oct-13-12
 | | tamar: After 36...Bc7 37 Rd5 gxh5 38 Rxh5 Re6 39 c4 Rd6+ 40 Rd5 Rg6 41 Rd7 Rc6 42 Kd4 Rc5 43 f4 Kf8 44 f5 Ke8 45 Rd5 Rc6 46 c5 Bd8 47 Kc4 bxc4 48 Re5+ Kd7 49 Rxc5 Ra6 50 Rd5+ Ke8 51 51 Kb5 Ra8 
click for larger viewit appears to me White has crossed a threshold, and can pick off enough pawns to eliminate Black's drawing chances, ie 52 Rd6 Ke7 53 Bc5 Ke8 54 Rxh6 Kd7 55 Rh7 Rb8+ 56 Kc4 Rb1 57 Rxf7+, and with two pawns up, White just must be careful to keep rooks on. For anyone interested, here are the rest of the moves tested on Houdini over a 2 day period. 57...Kc6 58 Bd4 Rc1+ 59 Kd3 Rd1+ 60 Ke4 Re1+ 61 Kf3 Rf1+ 62 Kg3 Bg5 63 Bf6 Bc1 64 Ra7 Bd2 65 g5 Rxf5 66 g6 Bh6 67 Kg4 Rf1 68 Rxa5 Kd6 69 Kh5 Rh1+ 70 Bh4 Bg7 71 Ra7 Bh8 72 a5 Kd5 73 g7 Bxg7 74 Rxg7 Ra1 75 Rg5+ Kc6 76 Re5 when the advantage on Houdini at 25 ply has grown to 4.66, but in reality is a tablebase win in 29 
click for larger viewAnyone spot any escapes? |
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| Oct-22-12 | | adhitthana: Carlsen just seemed to conjure that win up so easily |
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| Jun-17-13 | | Everett: Relative strength of the DSBs tilted this one in Carlsen's favor. |
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| Jan-28-14 | | elvisbluelight: I'm going to use this opening against opponent tomorrow. His a French opening so lets see if I can beat him. Mark Harden |
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| Jun-26-15 | | whiteshark: Karsten Mueller analysed this endgame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uztC... |
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