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| Nov-26-11 | | Archswindler: <al wazir: For example, where's the win after 39. Qxg7+ Qxg7 40. Bxg7 Nxf1 41. Kxf1 ?> I think 41... Re3 wins, e.g. 42. Kf2 Rxf3+ 43. Kxf3 Kxg7 with what looks like a winning pawn ending. If white tries 42. Nd4/h4 (intending 42... Kxg7? 43. Nf5+), then 42... Re4 43. Bf6/Nf5 Rf4+ wins. Anything else, and I think white just loses the knight or the bishop. Correct me if I've missed anything, though. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | sevenseaman: <Archswindler>
<I think 41... Re3 wins, e.g. 42. Kf2 Rxf3+ 43. Kxf3 Kxg7 with what looks like a winning pawn ending.> A nice way of neutralizing two White pieces for the R and arriving at a winning P ending. |
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Nov-26-11
 | | Jimfromprovidence: In the text line white had a possible game-saving move with 38 Qb5!
click for larger view This move attacks the rook and also threatens 39 Qxd5+. This forces 38...Qxf3 and now white defuses black's attack with 39 Qxd5+ Qxd5 40 Rxd5. 
click for larger viewNow, black can only trade pieces and come out just a pawn ahead with 40...Re1+, seeing 41 Kf2 Rxa1 42 Rxf5 Rxa4. 
click for larger view |
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Nov-26-11
 | | doubledrooks: Went in for 35...Bxc2, which doesn't work. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | goodevans: In the game continuation why didn't white just play <41 Nf3>? I think that would have been good enough for at least a draw. Maybe he thought <41 Rf3> was winning? |
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| Nov-26-11 | | sevenseaman: <goodevans> <In the game continuation why didn't white just play <41 Nf3>? I think that would have been good enough for at least a draw. Maybe he thought <41 Rf3> was winning?> 41. Nf3 Qe3+ 42. Rf2 Qxf2# |
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| Nov-26-11 | | nateinstein: On move 39 can white salvage by playing Qxg7+? Then 39...Qxg7 40. Bxg7 Nxf1 (or Kxg7 which is probably worse than Nxf1) 41. Kxf1 Rxc2 42. Bxh6. It certainly looks better for black with the idea of picking off the a-pawn, but the result is better than the text. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | RandomVisitor: <Jimfromprovidence>Your line creates an interesting rook-and-pawn ending where the extra pawn might not be enough to win. Any endgame gurus out there want to take a guess?
1: Lu Shanglei - Wan Yunguo, Chinese League 2011
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 4.1 x64:
[-1.24] d=28 38.Qb5 Qxf3 39.Qxd5+ Qxd5 40.Rxd5 Re1+ 41.Kf2 Rxa1 42.Rxf5 <Rxa4> 43.Ke3 a6 44.Kd3 b5 45.Kc3 Rc4+ 46.Kd3 Rc6 47.Rd5 Kf7 48.Rd7+ Kf6 49.c3 g6 50.Kd4 Rc4+ 51.Kd3 Ke5 52.Re7+ Kf5 53.Rf7+ |
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| Nov-26-11 | | vajeer: <Jimfromprovidence> 38. Qb5 allows
38...Nxg3 |
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Nov-26-11
| | Jimfromprovidence: <vajeer> <38. Qb5 allows 38...Nxg3> That's a real good point and a response I clearly overlooked. White can still escape after 39 Qxd5+ Kh7 40 Ne5.
click for larger view
Black still has a mate threat after 40...Qh5, but 41 h3 should save the day for white.
click for larger view
41...Qxh3 is met by 42 Qd3+, with a perpetual most likely. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: Spent almost an hour ... last night and today! ... on this one. Went for 35...BxP/f3!; (Gotta be the best try.) 36.NxB/f3, Re2; I have got a Rook to the 7th rank, but I did NOT see a win all lines! 37.g3, Qg4; and there are many defenses; (Qc3, Qb5, Rf1) and many branches ... Black may win in some lines, but others were almost impossible to calculate ... at least for me, just working from the diagram. Time to check, I will feel silly if I missed something really simple. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: I also looked at RV's 35...Ne3; but could not make it work. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | sethoflagos: <Jimfromprovidence: <vajeer> <38. Qb5 allows 38...Nxg3> That's a real good point and a response I clearly overlooked.> Immediate 40.h3 works just as well, after 40...Qxh3 41.Qd3+ leaves 
click for larger viewwhich black cannot block to advantage
41...g6? 42 Qd7+
41...Re4? 42 Rd2
41...Qf5? 42. just about anything
41...Ne4/f5?? 41.Ng5+!!
So only perpetual left |
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| Nov-26-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: All these posts ... all these complicated lines ... I don't feel a bit bad about my analysis, although 35...Ne3; was significantly better than what I chose. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | vajeer: <sethoflagos> <Jimfromprovidence>
I actually missed White's defense with h3.
I think immediate 40.h3 gives black a chance to play 40...Qg6 with double threat of 41...Ne4+ or Qxc2 depending on Whites's 41st move.
So I think 40.Ne5 as suggested by <Jimfromprovidence> is still better. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | sethoflagos: <vajeer: I think immediate 40.h3 gives black a chance to play 40...Qg6 with double threat of 41...Ne4+ or Qxc2 depending on Whites's 41st move. So I think 40.Ne5 as suggested by <Jimfromprovidence> is still better.> Jim's draws are always better than mine. But the money's the same ;-) 40.h3 Qg6? 41.Nh4 is good for white |
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| Nov-26-11 | | BOSTER: <PV> <35...Ne3 might also work>. Can we trust <Rybka> (<RV>) evaluation when <Rybka> has been disqualified? |
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| Nov-26-11 | | tacticalmonster: I got up to 37 Qg4 and I was stuck after 38 Nd4 but it loses by force: 38 Rg2+! 39 Kxg2 (39 Kh1 Qh3 40 Nf3 Nxg3#) (39 Kf1 Ne3+ 40 Ke1 Qxd1#) Ne3+ 40 Kg1 Qxd1+ 41 Kf2 Ng4+ 42 Kg2 Qd2+ 43 Kh3 (forced, any other king moves lead to mate) Nf2+ 44 Kg2 (44 Kh4 Qg5#) Nd3+ 45 Kh3 Nxb2  |
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| Nov-26-11 | | tacticalmonster: after 37 Qg4 White should play 38 Rd2! going into an inferior endgame a pawn down. After 38 Rf1 Nxg3 39 Qxg7+ Qxg7 40 Bxg7 Nxf1 41 Kxf1 Re3 42 Kg2 Rxf3 43 Kxf3 Kxg7 with a won pawn ending. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | DarthStapler: I at least considered the first move |
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| Nov-26-11 | | M.Hassan: <sevenseaman: No matter, cheer up.Your thinking is as much chess as the next man's> 1. It is so nice to see your positive and encouraging comments that many thanks may not suffice 2.My thinking was obviously not as much chess as yours who said: <Not so.Black is better> 3. I did make a comment that sides are still equal in "materials" but did not probe enough to see the connected pawns of Black can bring final win (thanks to you again) 4.My line goes up to 39...Rc1 and therefore 39...d4 does not apply but I can see that this isolani pawn can cause trouble for White. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | sevenseaman: <M.Hassan> You are being humble. With <jimfromprovidence> fairly proving that in the main line <35...Bxf3> White can escape with; <38. Qb5 Ng3 39. Qxd5+ Kh7 40. Ne5 Qh5 41. h3 Qxh3 42. Qd3+>
and get a perpetual, <35...Ne3> comes out a better line than <35...Bxf3>. At least I have not seen any refutation of <35...Ne3> so far. You did not persevere with your line but so didn't I. It was the first line that occurred to me but passed it up because of the daunting hard work it involved. Obviously we are all learning. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | Dr. J: Two points:
1) In the game line <35...Bxf3 etc.> 39 Qxg7+ Qxg7 40 Bxg7 is not good:
click for larger view
Now 40...Nxf1 41 Kxf1 Re3 42 Kf2 (or Kg2) Rxf3+ 43 Kxf3 Kxg2 wins. 2) In the alternative line: 35...Ne3 36 Rc1 Nxg2 37 Qxg7+ Qxg7 38 Bxg7 Nxe1 39 Rxe1 Kxg7 40 fxe4 
click for larger view the relevant endgame principle is "Rooks belong behind passed pawns", so Black should continue with 40...dxe4 followed by K-f6-e5 which looks won to me, and apparently Rybka agrees. |
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| Nov-26-11 | | M.Hassan: <sevenseaman: Obviously we are all learning.> Indeed |
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Nov-29-11
 | | kevin86: Black's answer to a trapped bishop:sacrifice it and start the attack. A "Wan" for the "Yunguo" and the restless. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 35...Bxf3