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Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-19-13 | | Once: <Nick46> You are quite right! What I meant to say was that 51. Qxd8+ is one move <wider> than 51. Qe7+. After 51. Qe7+, there is only one escape square so only one line to consider: 51... Kc6 52. Qc7#. But after 51. Qxd8+, black has a choice of two escape squares. So we have: 51...Kc6 52. Qc7# and
51...Ke5 52. Qe7#
I think that's why Phony called 51. Qxd8+ as less elegant. Not one move longer, but one variation wider. My mistake, my bad. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | solskytz: <Once> This defense of the empty square behind is quite unusual... so much so, that a draw by repetition can be the likely outcome, if this was played by somewhat lesser players... from your end position, of course 52... Kf4 53. Qh4+ Ke5 54. Qe7 (mate) Kf4 etc., keeping both parties not only pleased, but also (maybe) feeling like they've been battled it like the World Champions! |
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| Nov-19-13 | | Doniez: It´s about to replace the Black knight and the White Rook sacrifice is the solution! |
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| Nov-19-13 | | TheaN: <abuzic 49.Re8+ wins after 49...Kd6 50.Qf4+, now balck must cover the e5 square: <50...Qe5 or 50...Ne5 51.Rd8+ loses the Q> and after 50...Re5 51.fxg6 fxg6 52.Ng4 wins the R.>
click for larger viewPoint taken. I had missed this position after 50.Qf4+ Re5 51.fxg6 fxg6 52.Ng4. It's also not that black has anything else than fxg6 either, the position is collapsing. White probably missed this dominance too when playing Nd5+. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | Jim Bartle: A Cliff Hanger? |
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| Nov-19-13 | | zb2cr: I found the <Phony Benoni>-<Once> variation 51. ... Qxd8+ instead of the game variation 51. ... Qe7+. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | BOSTER: I'd translate PB like 52.Qh8x. |
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Nov-19-13
 | | gawain: I've been away from the site for a couple of weeks. (Not that anyone would necessarily notice.) But this is a marvelous puzzle to come back to. I adore these middle of the board checkmates. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | MiCrooks: So many weird variations played today...must be a sleepy Tuesday or something. Qxd8+ is just as fast as Qe7 and the more natural move (removing a piece in the process). Not sure why Morph when for Ne7+ winning the Queen on Kc6 rather than simply Qc7++ (same mate as in Qe7+). And Ke5 Qe7++ is just as fast as another pointed out, so really there should be no preference of one move over the other. |
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Nov-19-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <Once> I was actually using "less elegant" in a materialistic sense because 51.Qxd8+ captured a piece during the mating process. I'd agree that 51.Qxd8+ Ke5 52.Qe7# is probably the nicest mate in the bunch. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | kevin86: The rook sac leads to a quick mate.jw,Does the loser hang out in cheap bars or deliver mail? Would that make her a mail woman or a people person? |
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Nov-19-13
| | Phony Benoni: <kevin86> Er... Klovans was from Latvia, where Janis is a masculine name. http://kevinspraggettonchess.wordpr... |
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Nov-19-13
 | | perfidious: In point of fact, Janis is the Latvian equivalent of George. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | YouRang: <solskytz: <Once> This defense of the empty square behind is quite unusual...
so much so, that a draw by repetition can be the likely outcome, if this was played by somewhat lesser players... from your end position, of course 52... Kf4 53. Qh4+ Ke5 54. Qe7 (mate) Kf4 etc.,> Not sure what you mean by continuing on after <Once>'s end position. That end position was checkmate (52...Kf4 is impossible since it's covered by the knight). |
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Nov-19-13
 | | FSR: The adage "check him and wreck him" applies: 50.Rd8+ Nxd8 (50...Ke5 51.Qf4#) 51.Qe7+ Kc6 52.Qc7#. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | MountainMatt: I went with 50. Rd8+ Nxd8 51. Qxd8+ etc. I suppose 51. Qe7 is the more "civilized" choice, eschewing the gratuitous lust for material of the former sequence. Call me barbaric. :) |
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Nov-19-13
| | perfidious: <MountainMatt>: Here's to depravity and barbarism! |
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| Nov-19-13 | | YouRang: Had this been a composed problem, I'm sure the composer would have probably found some devious way to punish the barbarians who capture the N on e8. But as it is, it's hard to say which method is more elegant. - Are forced moves that eschew material gain more elegant? - Or is it creating a position where the opponent has choices, but they are all prettily accounted for? |
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| Nov-19-13 | | solskytz: <YouRang> I meant that because the position is unusual, if the players aren't so strong, they may both miss the fact that it was checkmate :-) and go for the perpetual. Did it ever happen to you that you were watching a game between to weaker players, and despite promising to yourself that you weren't going to interfere, found yourself at some point shouting "check" and actually taking back on the board the last move, where a player ignored it? |
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Nov-19-13
 | | Penguincw: This puzzle was pretty simple, but it's kind of easy to mix the order. |
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| Nov-19-13 | | YouRang: <solskytz> I see.
I don't recommend watching games between very weak players. It's only a matter of time before you want to strangle someone -- and then if you do, you regret it later. ;-) |
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| Nov-20-13 | | solskytz: Generally and as far as I can remember, although there are often drinks and stuff, even weak chess players tend to come out physically alive after playing chess in my presence. |
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| Nov-20-13 | | john barleycorn: <solskytz: Generally and as far as I can remember, although there are often drinks and stuff, even weak chess players tend to come out physically alive after playing chess in my presence.> Good for them and good for you. Keep it that way... |
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| Nov-20-13 | | 8284: It took me a while, but then... |
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| Nov-20-13 | | kevin86: oops,I apologize on getting MISTER Klavin's gender incorrect-It is so hard to get those Latvian names right. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 50.Rd8+