|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-31-12 | | Conrad93: Until older books are updated, chess players will have to understand both forms of notation. I don't find old chess notation difficult, just different. The understanding allows me to read great books I would have otherwise skipped at my local library. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | ruzon: "Good books" are in the eye of the beholder. If a young player doesn't know descriptive notation, then they're not "good books" to them. There are plenty of books for them to read in the last few decades. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Conrad93: Ruzon, that is illogical. "Easier to read" doesn't translate to goodness. It would be like stating that The Art of Attack in Chess is awful simply because it is difficult to read. Chess is a difficult game to understand, yet that doesn't make it bad. Ignorance is never an excuse. the blame falls on the person incapable of trying to learn descriptive chess notation, which takes 10-15 minutes to learn at most. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | BadKnight: i am from the new generation. i find algebric notation more convenient. descriptive notation is dirrerent, but as said above, it should not take more than 10-15 minute to learn it, so no excuses. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Patriot: This took me quite a few tries and I hope I'm right. Black's rook hangs on d4 and at first I looked at 27...Bb4+ 28.Kxd4 Bxe1 29.Rxe1 Qxa5 but I'm not sure what the point is. However, I finally noticed an obvious seed of tactical destruction--the a8 bishop x-raying through to white's queen. The question was, "Where do I move the rook?" At first, 27...Rc4+ seemed really good since 28.bxc4 d4+ wins the queen. The problem is white doesn't have to follow this line like a robot. 28.Kd3 looks sufficient. So then I turned to 27...Ra4. 28.Rxa4 d4+ 29.Rxd4 Qxa5+ 30.b4 Qa3+  . |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Patriot: After 27...Ra4, I missed the (near) refute 28.Rxe6+!. How did I miss that?? I also missed the key behind 27...Bb4+. 28.Kxd4 Qb6+ (not 28...Bxe1). 28...Bxe1 looks like an "idiot combination"--a phrase I recall in one of Silman's books. It appeared to be nothing more than a clever way to trade pieces. I discarded the whole line in error without considering other possibilities. But just because 28...Bxe1 leads to nothing, it doesn't mean the whole line is bad. That's when you should back up and look for other options. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Patriot: I was very sloppy even though I honestly tried. If 27...Rc4+, 28.Kd3 loses to 28...Rc3+ 29.Kxc3 d4+ and black gets what he wants--the queen. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | David2009: First the good news - I spotted the winning combination winning Q for R. Now the bad news - I failed to beat Crafty End Game Trainer first time in the colours-reversed puzzle position
click for larger view (Z Necesany vs V Zagorovsky 1972 27...? colours reversed). EGT link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... In the colours-reversed position the robot meets 1.Bb5+ with Kb7!? and I made life unnecessarily difficult by a poor choice of second move. Grabbing the Rook wins relatively easily, taking the N (as I did) should also win - but it gives the EGT counter-chances which it duly took (first time round). Enjoy exploring both variations! Here's a second colours-reversed link to the game continuation one move later: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... Enjoy practicing winning this position! |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Jambow: Wow ok Wednesday felt like a Friday, I did intuitively see that Bb4+ was the start but it took me a while to get to discovered attack on whites queen with d4+. Great puzzle to train the mind to recognize fertile soil. Its not that you can see the fruit its just that you know the conditions are right and it should be there keep looking until you find it. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Infohunter: <gars> You'll have to ask <Abdel> about the Descriptive Latin, though I'm sure that was fanciful humor on his part. So far as anyone knows chess wasn't around yet in the days of the Roman Empire. <jkiipli> You'll have to ask <Abdel> about the Arabic Algebraic, as I am utterly unfamiliar with it. But as for the Estonian Long Algebraic, here is a sample from Keres' *Malekool*, Volume 1, pp.101-107 (part of the section entitled "Neljaratsuavang", i.e., "Four Knights' Game"), just for you: 1.e2-e4 e7-e5
2.Rg1-f3 Rb8-c6
3.Rb1-c3 Rg8-f6
4.Of1-b5 Of8-b4
5.O-O O-O
6.d2-d3 Ob4:c3
7.b2:c3 d7-d6
8.Oc1-g5! Ld8-e7
9.Vf1-e1 Rc6-d8
10.d3-d4 Rd8-e6
11.Og5-c1! c7-c5
12.d4-d5 Re6-d7
13.Ob5-d3
(Hmm...they won't line up in neat columns, regardless of what I do. Oh well...) |
|
Oct-31-12
 | | Phony Benoni: Reading scores using algebraic is generally not difficult. In the example above, it's quickly apparent that "R" is knight, "O" is bishop, "L" is queen, "V" is rook, and whatever other symbol pops up is king. I worked on several sets of tournament bulletins at the US Open, and got to see many different styles. I did have to give up on the Hebrew, which means I'd probably have trouble on Arabic as well. And then there was Alexander Ivanov, who was in a class by himself. Imagine a group of chicken scratchings which may or may not be Cyrillic. Bulletin editors quickly learn two facts unknown to the general public: 1) Chessplayers are divided into three groups: those with perfect scoresheets, those with illegible scoresheets, and those who never hand in a scoresheet. 2) The primary function of the Swiss System is to pair players within their scoresheet group, meaning that the Bulletin Editor will get two perfect scoresheets, two illegible scoresheets, or no scoresheets at all. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Archswindler: <Conrad93: Ruzon, that is illogical. "Easier to read" doesn't translate to goodness. It would be like stating that The Art of Attack in Chess is awful simply because it is difficult to read.> Fortunately, the Art of Attack in Chess is available in algebraic, and I expect most old books that are any good have been reprinted in algebraic also, so I don't feel like we're missing all that much. I think there are far more than enough decent chess books printed in algebraic for anyone's needs, so I don't feel the need to worry about whatever old books haven't had a new edition recently. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Conrad93: Some wonderful books in chess have not been converted to algebraic chess notation. That does not make them any lesser in quality or greatness. Anyone who would argue otherwise would be deceiving themselves. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Abdel Irada: <jkiipli: <Abdel Irada: <Infohunter: I am tempted ... which is written in Estonian long algebraic....> Ah, yes. And then I could reply with some analysis in Arabic algebraic ...> Go ahead, I can understand both, by the way "algebra" is an arabic word by origin, meaning "inevitability" or "determinism"> The origin is "al-jabr," whose literal meaning is "the reduction." ---
One practical hurdle exists, however: In order to post in Arabic script, one must use Unicode, which is prohibitively cumbersome and therefore impractical for any but the shortest posts. |
|
| Oct-31-12 | | Infohunter: <Phony Benoni: Reading scores using algebraic is generally not difficult. In the example above, it's quickly apparent that "R" is knight, "O" is bishop, "L" is queen, "V" is rook, and whatever other symbol pops up is king.> Yes, long algebraic has a way of making it abundantly clear which letter stands for which piece. Incidentally it's "K" ("kuningas") for King in Estonian. The word, which also means "king" in the stock sense, is clearly of non-Estonian origin (cf. Proto-Germanic "*kuningaz", Old Norse "konungr"). One thing I found fascinating about Estonian chess terminology was the fact that the word for chess ("male", pronounced roughly like MALL-eh) is not derived directly or indirectly from the Sanskrit "chaturanga" or its Persian adaptation "shatranj", unlike most languages. I tried to discover the origin of this word for quite some time and then, a little over five years ago, I asked about it in the Estonian forum at www.unilang.org, where I am a member. A day later my question was answered by a young lady from Estonia, thus: "Estonian chess terminology, including the name of the game, was developed by Estonian journalist Ado Grenzstein (1849-1916). The word male was derived from malev ('army', arch.)." The archaism of the source word "malev" explains why I could find no help in an ordinary Estonian dictionary. I looked up Ado Grenzstein on wikipedia: It had articles on him in German and Estonian:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ado_Gr...
http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ado_Gr...
Seems he was quite the polymath, writing as he did on many different subjects. From what I read, there was no chess literature in Estonian prior to Grenzstein's book, nor apparently even any native chess terminology. Anyone who wanted to play chess there prior to that time must have had to use either German or Russian. Amazing what an intellectual pilgrimage can be sparked by one little quirk in a language. |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Abdel Irada: For anyone who wishes to read chess notation in other languages, this page is worth bookmarking: http://reocities.com/TimesSquare/me.... ---
<Infohunter>: I suspect you'd agree with Will Durant: "He who should know the history of languages, should know the whole of history." |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Infohunter: <Abdel Irada: For anyone who wishes to read chess notation in other languages, this page is worth bookmarking: http://reocities.com/TimesSquare/me>.... I recently discovered the new URL for that page, which I had been missing since geocities closed, through another member of <cg>; I think it was <perfidious>. <<Infohunter>: I suspect you'd agree with Will Durant: "He who should know the history of languages, should know the whole of history."> You suspect correctly, though I had never seen that quote from Durant before. |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Abdel Irada: <I recently discovered the new URL for that page, which I had been missing since geocities closed, through another member of <cg>; I think it was <perfidious>.> Yes. That's how I learned of it myself. (Although I don't recall who was the source.) |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Infohunter: <Abdel Irada> Incidentally, I have all eleven volumes of Will and Ariel Durant's *Story of Civilization* series--they take up a whole shelf of a little bookcase my son built for me years ago--but I've not read much in any of them as yet. That is why I was not familiar with the quote. I suppose that of all the books I have, these are some that I should make sure to read soon. (Believe it or not, my chess library is only a small fraction of my entire book inventory.) |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Abdel Irada: The quotation occurred in _The Age of Faith_, the only volume on which I have so far laid hands thanks to the constraints of penury. |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Infohunter: <Abdel Irada: The quotation occurred in _The Age of Faith_, the only volume on which I have so far laid hands thanks to the constraints of penury.> Yes, the fourth volume of the series. That much I DO know. I am a volunteer at my local Friends of the Library. That is how I came to own the set for dirt cheap a few years back. The only one they did not have was the eleventh and final volume of the series, *The Age of Napoleon*. I ordered that one online--cost me more that way than the first ten combined. Point is, if you have some spare time, that might be a good way to add to your personal library without emptying your bank account. |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Shams: "He who would know the age of the earth, should look upon an ocean in a storm." |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Infohunter: <Shams: "He who would know the age of the earth, should look upon an ocean in a storm."> Whom are you quoting? |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Shams: <Infohunter> Joseph Conrad, but my memory was imprecise. From "The Mirror of the Sea": <If you would know the age of the earth, look upon the sea in a storm. The grayness of the whole immense surface, the wind furrows upon the faces of the waves, the great masses of foam, tossed about and waving, like matted white locks, give to the sea in a gale an appearance of hoary age, lustreless, dull, without gleams, as though it had been created before light itself.> |
|
| Nov-01-12 | | Chessdreamer: 18.b3, C Jansen vs V Zagorovsky, 1968. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 27...Bb4+
